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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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An Act Of God?
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Last night on ABC evening news with Diane Sawyer I heard a pastor who has lost his church to the rash of tornadoes that occurred on Thursday make the statement;
“God didn’t even spare his own house.”
I couldn’t believe that anyone could perceive this to be an act of God. Since most mainstreamers believe in the existence of an evil entity; “the devil” It would have been more understandable if this had been interpreted as an act of the devil.
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TRWord 04/30/2011 08:59 |
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John T
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04/30/2011 09:14 |
Hmm.. Interesting. It is interesting to note that most insurance policies and documents refer to "acts of God" in their writing as well. Since God is sovereign and over all, it would make sense, thinking with an eye towards the story of Job, that everything that happens is either an act of God or something that God has allowed to happen.
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Claire Stanniland
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04/30/2011 10:25 |
This is always a difficult question. I have sympathy with the pastor wanting to rage at God over what has happened - the Psalms are full of people shouting at God. I believe our Father prefers our honesty over our struggles to cope with such terrible events. Remembering back to the teaching series on prayer from a few years ago, there are Spiritual battles going on (Ephesians 6:10-18) and not everything that happens is God's will - some things are of the enemy. Certainly there are examples in Scripture of God acting through natural disasters. However, Jesus' teaching shows that we can't always know why things happen (Luke 13:1-5).
The one thing we do know for certain is that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him (Romans 8:28). My own pastor teaches that instead of asking, 'Why?' it may be more helpful to ask, 'For what purpose?' - e.g. the man in John 9 was born blind so that the work of God could be displayed in his life.
My prayers are with all those affected by the tornadoes.
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TRWord
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04/30/2011 11:10 |
Hi john
I tend to avoid the story of Job when speaking to mainstreamers. The story of Job has several conversations between God and Satan and because mainstreamers interpret the scripture literally, they miss the message of Job and instead are further convinced in the existence of the devil.
Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
This is the essence of Job’s story.
You said:
“Since God is sovereign and over all, it would make sense, thinking with an eye towards the story of Job, that everything that happens is either an act of God or something that God has allowed to happen.”
Why would a God of love allow such things to happen. Or could it be that we by believing in “good and evil” which we were commanded not to do have brought evil manifestation upon ourselves.
Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
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John T
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04/30/2011 11:50 |
Job 2:10 But he said to her, "You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?"
There are many character qualities to God - not just love. He is just, he is longsuffering, he is gracious, and of course he is love as well as many other things. Any will or emotion or feeling that we can have is only there, it only existing because God created it and knows it first.
The Bible does specifically talk about things to come: wars, rumours of wars, earthquakes, etc. Does God not have power over the weather? Did Jesus not calm the storm? I'm not saying that God intentionally caused disaster to kill people in an evil way, but as Claire stated, "for what purpose" -- for what purpose did he allow this? That we would be still and know that he is God? That we would be shaken and turn from our wicked ways? There is always a purpose.
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John T
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04/30/2011 11:51 |
What's this "mainstreamers" stuff anyway? What do you mean by that - and what does the term mean?
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TRWord
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05/01/2011 06:09 |
John
You asked: “What's this "mainstreamers" stuff anyway? What do you mean by that - and what does the term mean?”
Mainstream christianity is a continuation of what the scribes and Pharisees believed with Jesus Christ as the sacrifice.
Jesus came teaching a message totally against what the scribes and Pharisees believed. They believed that a sacrifice had to be offered for the forgiveness of sin but Jesus taught that He had power on earth to forgive sin.
Matt. 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Matt. 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
Matt. 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
Matt. 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Matt. 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
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Ted C
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05/01/2011 09:24 |
That's because Jesus' sacrifice transcends time. Revelation calls Him the Lamb slain, "from the foundation of the world". (Revelation 13:8). And Hebrews teaches that Jesus' blood obtained "eternal redemption". (Hebrews 9:12).
Any other questions?
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Calico
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05/01/2011 09:57 |
Hi TRWord, hi Claire, hi John T,
As this thread's content begins and heads down this path again, I thought to offer something into the thread for the sake of at least trying to understand differing viewpoints: http://www.christianbook.com/the-nature-the-atonement-four-views/gregory-boyd/9780830825707/pd/825700?item_code=WW&netp_id=460966&event=ESRCN&view=details. Dunno if that might be at the library John, it's not widely read. But it does offer information to us for understanding (rightly or wrongly).
Further, for a much more philosophical and very robust take on the matter of at hand discussed here, about natural evil and moral evil (which, to my perceptions, seem to be the two things being talked about, both here on this "An Act Of God?" thread and on the "The Existence Of Evil" thread from several weeks ago), I hope to encourage the ongoing dialog by offering to share with all of you the perspective discussed in a series our church recently worked through, entitled "My God, Why?" If one would like to download the material (it is a six part series), it can be found on iTunes under a search for "The Meeting House Audiocast." Check the archived dates running from Oct. 31st 2010 to Dec. 5th 2010. Alternatively, the series can also be found on www.themeetinghouse.ca, under the Teaching tab in the 2010 section (this website is a placeholder site while our new website is currently under construction, but it is still usable).
While I will still disagree with TRWord's conclusion that seems to posit that there CURRENTLY is not such an entity as Satan, I will also state the following, for consideration of things on this thread: "...evil is not a thing or substance. Rather it is a lack or privation of a good thing that God made. Evil is a deprivation of some particular good."
This describes a qualitative state. It is the "without-God" state, degenerative to whatever depth or degree that state exists in nature or man.
Praying with you, brothers and sister,
Tom
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Calico
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05/01/2011 09:59 |
Oh on this thread I should say hi to Ted too, since I didn't include his name in the opening of my post.
I think I was writing as you were posting, Ted.
:-)
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Mrs.C
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05/01/2011 11:53 |
Christians are not exempt from trials and struggles. To be sure, these trials and struggles can lead us closer to God.
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