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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Your Allegiance is it to “THE TRUTH” or “THE CREED.”
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Jesus has called us to “THE TRUTH.”?
To those Jews that believed on Him, He said: “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” ( SEE John 8:31-32KJV)
And to those disciples who were driven by the desire to know THE TRUTH and nothing else He said:
“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” (SEE John 14:16-17KJV)
He also said to those disciples: “when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.” (SEE John 16:13KJV)
Paul on the other hand warned us of another spirit; an unholy one, when he said:
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. (SEE 2 Cor. 4:3-4KJV)
Now that Christianity is no longer discipleship to the teaching of Jesus Christ, believers have been given a formal statement of what they should believe; a doctrine or CREED.
This unholy spirit that Paul spoke of has called many believers not to THE TRUTH but to defend this CREED.
Like a legal document which one must agree to abide by in order to use a service, the believer must now adhere to, and defend this CREED. And this CREED as Paul said “hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,” because even though it goes totally against everything that Jesus taught the believer is bound to it and unable to seek “THE TRUTH” which is his only salvation.
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TRWord 10/09/2012 17:53 |
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Catholica
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10/09/2012 20:12 |
The creed is true, and therefore there is no difference between what is in the creed and what is true (although there is much in the world that is not . Moreover anything opposed to the creed is false.
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Catholica
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10/09/2012 20:19 |
Agh edit button. What I meant to say was that "there is much in the world that is true that is not in the creed".
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Ted C
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10/11/2012 12:04 |
But if all that exists is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit then aren't even false creeds in their own way - or from a certain viewpoint - a part of the divinity? And if not so, why not?
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TRWord
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10/11/2012 15:04 |
If the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit is all that exists, then those that are deluded by a false creed, as a consequence will see themselves as separate and apart from the divinity. Which is the one thing that the Father cannot fix.
He can forgive you of your sins but he cannot make you apart of His kingdom when you have separated yourself from it.
Matt. 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
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Catholica
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10/11/2012 15:56 |
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is not all that exists.
Even if you don't believe in the things contained in the ancient creeds, you still have your own creed. The word "creed" comes from the Latin "credo" which means "I believe". In this case, TRWord, your "creed" would contain "all that exists is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" and also that "God cannot make you a part of His kingdom when you have separated yourself from it".
The problem you have is therefore not with creeds themselves, since even if you don't call your belief pamphlet a creed, it is a creed. Rather you have a problem with Christianity's traditional creeds, in particular the Apostles' Creed and the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, in all likelihood.
All you are really saying here is that you believe our creed is false and your creed is true. Which is saying nothing new at all. Part of the reason the Church came up with a creed was to ensure that people didn't end up straying from the true Gospel. Much of the later creeds was added to combat certain heresies that had sprung up at those times. As an aside, the creeds I have mentioned are quite powerful and useful for keeping people from believing that they /are/ God, as the New Age proposes, and I'm willing to guess that this is why you dislike it so much.
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Tom B
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10/12/2012 09:48 |
Good point Andre.
When I was young I had much trouble with the creeds. But as I mature, I have learned to see the value of stating and reflecting upon my beliefs,
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Craig from Illinois
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10/12/2012 09:52 |
You've got amazing insight and communication skills, Andre. Interesting points TR. I never thought of what we believe is OUR creed.
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TRWord
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10/12/2012 14:20 |
Catholica
The Question is whether your allegiance is it to “THE TRUTH” or “THE CREED?”
And you gave your answer with your very first post by saying:
“The creed is true, and therefore there is no difference between what is in the creed and what is true (although there is much in the world that is not . Moreover anything opposed to the creed is false.”
Notice your first inclination is to jump to the defense of THE CREED.
Jesus said:
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John14:6)
He has defined Himself as the truth and as the way to life. Obviously if we seek the truth it’s impossible to be deceived.
True Christianity is discipleship to the teaching of Jesus Christ which commands that we are engaged in the quest for the truth.
The creeds on the other hand are belief statements and the belief in the creeds is akin to a student who ignored the teacher all semester and believed that he can earn an A by just reading the cliffs notes.
A person can recite that he believe in the Holy Ghost yet have no idea what he’s talking about and could very well be committing blasphemy against the Holy Ghost because he knows no better.
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Catholica
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01/19/2013 06:29 |
I jumped to defense of the truth. That is because the creed is true, and it was being attacked.
Say you would have asked, "Is your allegiance to "THE TRUTH" or "THE BIBLE"". The premise for a question like that would be that the Bible is not true. And if one would have jumped to defend the Bible, you /could/ have replied:
----
Jesus said:
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
He has defined Himself as the truth and as the way to life. Obviously if we seek the truth it’s impossible to be deceived.
True Christianity is discipleship to the teaching of Jesus Christ which commands that we are engaged in the quest for the truth.
The Bible on the other hand are belief statements and the belief in the creeds is akin to a student who ignored the teacher all semester and believed that he can earn an A by just reading the cliffs notes.
A person can recite that he believes from the Bible in the Holy Ghost yet have no idea what he’s talking about and could very well be committing blasphemy against the Holy Ghost because he knows no better.
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Jesus is not the same as the Bible. And in fact, the Bible says that not everything Jesus said or did is recorded in it. The Bible, in that way, could be considered "cliff notes".
The point of what I write is not to attack the Bible, but rather to expose the method you are using as false.
I defend the creed because I defend the truth, and the creed is true. Likewise I would defend the Bible because the Bible I defend the truth, and the Bible is true. It is a false duality to set "The Creed" up vs. "The Truth". The argument implies something that you believe, which is that the creed is false. This way of arguing manipulates people into being angry, as if they have been deceived, but you haven't demonstrated that anyone has been deceived by believing a creed, because your premise has not been proven.
Rather, you need to demonstrate that the creed is false before you can start to poo-poo people for believing it.
In fact the creed is very useful, especially for the less educated. It is a tool that can prevent them from falling into heresies, ones that claim that Jesus was not both a human person and a divine persons, ones that deny that God is a Trinity. It is useful as far as a basis for faith, something a person can build on. The creed and the truth are not at odds. It is true that we should not stop at the creed but pursue an ever deeper knowledge of the truth, but the creed is not at odds with that.
What I believe are actually at odds here are the creed and what you would like us to believe is true. I stated this before and you did not deny it. I believe that the creed is an obstacle for you to get people to believe what you would have them believe, and in my opinion that shows that the creed is a useful and effective tool, doing what it is meant to do.
As quoted from this Daily Audio Bible site:
http://www.dailyaudiobible.com/Groups/1000046003/Daily_Audio_Bible/About_Us/What_We_Believe/What_We_Believe.aspx
NICENE CREED (AD 325)
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God,
begotten of the Father before all worlds;
God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who, for us men and for our salvation,
came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary,
and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate;
He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;
and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father;
and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead;
whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life;
who proceeds from the Father and the Son;
who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified;
who spoke by the prophets.
And I believe one holy catholic* and apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
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