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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Freedom from religion
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Hi all friends in Christ,
I had the pleasure of attending a local DAB family gathering just over a week ago. And out of curiosity I went and listened to a large portion of the one held just last Friday in Oregon. It's so great that we can get together when we seem to be such a virtual family. I think in God's name, in his word and in the love Brian shares with us we are truly a family!
I want to raise an honest question to everyone here, and I absolutely don't mean this as a challenge. It is no secret that both God and religion are near and dear to my heart. So it hurts my heart when I hear people say that they are "so happy to be free from the bonds of religion". I am wondering, if people really consider that statement, what exactly are they happy to be free from? What exact aspects of religion are people rejecting?
I know that people have been "hurt by the church" and I can understand being hurt by other people, but is it really religion "itself" that they are rejecting or is it something else?
I offer this as an inquiry, and I hope that the dialogue is fruitful and enlightening. I respect everyone's opinion and I know that old hurts can drive up deep emotions.
I, for one, love my religion. I love it so much! I learn so much from having that base, I love having the ancient practices and interesting traditions, I love having the stability of authority, and I truly believe that Jesus made this religion for us. In any case, I'd love to hear where people are coming from that makes them feel so excited to be free of religious "bonds" and what you might perceive these bonds to be.
God bless you, Daily Audio Bible family.
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Catholica 05/28/2013 14:04 |
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Marcie in MO
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05/28/2013 17:01 |
Andre,
I love that you love your denomination so much. I think that some people (because of their personality maybe? or because of false teaching? or because they don't read their Bible?) get hung up in the DOING instead of the BELIEVING and the LOVE. They get caught up in the rules and regulations, the shoulds and should nots, the bake sales and ministries; and lose sight of Jesus and what He has done for us. God becomes something that has to be done (church, baking, serving, sacraments) rather than someONE who loves. Much like the Pharisees, eh? It doesn't necessary mean religion is bad or a denomination is bad. I think in every service in every denomination it would be a great heart check for leaders and attenders alike to have a reminder that we are saved by God's love through Jesus Christ and through Him alone. There is nothing we can do. After all, if we could do it ourselves, why did Jesus need to go through what He did?
Just watch out that you don't come to love your religion more than you love your God!
Much love,
Marcie
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Catholica
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05/29/2013 09:58 |
Hi Marcie, great to hear from you.
I agree that just doing and not believing and loving IS a problem, and one that affects many people. But I don't see this as a problem with religion itself, so much so that one could rightly describe it as "bondage". You know what I mean?
At the DAB gathering in St. Paul, someone prayed thanking God for releasing us from the "bondage of religion". At the DAB gathering in Oregon, another person said much the same thing. I guess I don't see it. So I seek that insight that will help me understand.
All of the good things you noted are not exclusively for the non-religious. And frankly reading the lives of the saints, I have never seen people more free!
I'm wondering, perhaps the understanding of true freedom has been lost?
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Helga
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05/29/2013 23:31 |
Andre, I personally agree with Marcie and sometimes we try and figger things out but Jesus came to demonstrate how we should live. No strings attached, a plain life to love God with all our heart, soul and mind and to love our neighbor as ourselves.
Before Jesus came, there were all these rules and regulation but in Him we are free.
I see what you mean. You love your religion and you love the way the Word of God is presented to you but not all are like you. We have on earth artists, doctors etc and they perceive information differently and at the end of all is to believe what Jesus has said: I am the way and the truth. No one comes to the father except through me.
I think we all on a journey and have to be careful not to judge others.
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Catholica
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06/07/2013 13:54 |
Hi Helga,
Thanks for responding. I sense that what you are saying is that the bondage that people refer to are all the "rules and regulations". And also that we all "have a journey" and there is no one-size-fits-all solution to that.
But do rules and regulations really put us in bondage, or do they set us free? I think that if our heart wants something that goes against the rules and regulations that have been set forward, then the rules seem like bondage. But perhaps there is more to consider here.
Helga, if I recall correctly you live in South Africa. I'm assuming that life in South Africa is somewhat like life where I live in the USA, where your society has laws in order to keep the peace. Would you say that eliminating those laws would make people in general "more free" or "less free"? Say, for example, the government eliminated the law against theft. So now people can steal imperviously. Ok. And maybe they eliminate the law against not paying your taxes. So now no one pays their taxes.
In either of these scenarios, the society collapses. In the course of human history it has been found that laws (rules and regulations) are absolutely necessary to maintain any society, which is why all societies have them.
So rules and regulations are necessary, and not necessarily bad, though certainly some societies do have bad laws. So I could imagine that living in a society with unjust laws would be a bad thing that one would want to escape from or change if they could. So I can see wanting to escape a church which had unjust laws. But a society with "just" laws, now that would be a very good thing that would lead to maximum freedom.
The only other option is to go off on our own, and so we become our own law. But I think that there is biblical foundation to avoid this situation, commands to "not forsake the assembly". After all the people of God is one body, a community. Thus this community must necessarily have laws, and at best it would have only just laws.
But I don't feel like that is the sentiment behind the idea of "escaping the bonds of religion". That is, I don't think that most people make a reasoned decision to leave a community due to unjust laws. My view is that their decision is probably more linked to having been hurt by other people acting in a certain way, and they attribute these hurts not just to other people acting badly but rather to religion in general. And often these hurts are generated from people who treat the word of God like a hammer and condemn other people because of some sin they see. It's basically a reaction to un-Christlike behavior.
Or perhaps it is from a person at one point receiving undue pressure from people in charge to compel them to take part in things effectively against their will. And I believe that this is one type of unjust law since compulsion is not the gospel, but rather, love. Love must be free, not compelled, and works flow from love of God and neighbor. But then again, was the compulsion the failure of a person in that congregation or something inherent in the fabric of the congregation? If it is inherent then this is a good reason to leave, but neither is a conviction against religion in general, as there are many different ways of operating, and many don't behave in this way.
Can anyone come up with other reasons?
I think that a person's conviction that a particular denomination is not teaching God's truth cannot be used as an example of "bonds of religion" in this case, because the error of one group of people doesn't write off all religion in general, it just writes off one particular denomination. Since the Truth of God is absolute, we are always bound by it, no matter what.
What I could see with regard to truth is that a person simply doesn't like assenting to truth and would prefer to determine "truth" for themselves. But due to the fallibility of the individual person and our human tendencies to find "convenient truths" this is not the way to go. It is the Truth that sets us free, and the Truth is absolute, not something we determine for ourselves or on our own. And I think that this is part why the author of Hebrews says "do not forsake the assembly".
In any case, thanks for responding to my thread, and I'm glad to hear from you! I welcome anyone's responses.
I think it is important for everyone to consider this in general. Is this "free from the bonds of religion" an attitude that is fair to have, that effectively all religions are treated as a form of bondage? Or have human failings and our own real hurts led us to forsake the assembly against God's wishes and from an unjust assessment of the real problem? Unjustly attributing words like "bondage" to religion can infect our hearts, divide us, and turn us away from things that can truly help us, things that can lead us to the heart of Jesus.
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Marcie in MO
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06/07/2013 14:37 |
Andre,
People begin to think that following the rules and regulations are what save them (many times this is encouraged by the church they attend). They get caught up in the legalism, much the same as the Pharisees, and forget that their relationship with Jesus is the important thing. I believe this is the bondage they are speaking of. Jesus does not call people to religion. He calls people to a relationship with Him. There is NOTHING we can do or have to do other than believe.
~Marcie
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