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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Does god plan when we die?
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My aunt recently lost her 21 year old son to a drowning accident. She is not a Christian but is searching and seeking. She is reading purpose driven life and attending Alpha. She has asked me, "If God planned our birth and our death why did John get such a bad deal? " To be honest, I am struggling to answer this question! Your advice and comments would be really helpful. Thank you.
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skeffie 01/28/2014 14:48 |
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Catholica
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02/03/2014 13:18 |
Hi skeffie,
God does know when we are to be born and when we will die.
My condolences to you and to your aunt, I am sorry for the loss of your cousin.
As Christians, we look at death differently than the world does. The world looks at the end of our life as a necessary evil, a tragedy, a loss, an occasion only for sorrow. The world looks at our natural life as the source and summit of everything we will ever have that is good or enjoyable. But as Christians, we see (should) death as a passage into eternal life, a joyful occasion! Because our loved one is now gone on to be with God, which is a better place than this world is. We also see in the world, along with joy which only comes from God, also the suffering that comes from sin, ours or others'.
That isn't to say that we don't mourn the loss of our loved ones. It is okay and natural to mourn! Because we were born to be in communion and relationship with everyone we love, and the separation we feel does create a certain kind of separation from them. But with faith we know that death is not the end.
Consider the birth of a human baby. The baby is perfectly happy and content in the womb of its mother. It has everything it needs, it is warm and protected. And then it goes through a (often) rather traumatic event, the birth, and comes out screaming. And every one of us goes through that. But do any of us wish that we could now be back in our mother's womb? Of course not, because we are now aware of the good that awaited us on the other side.
So too for everyone who dies, at least that is our Christian hope. I don't know the circumstances around John's life nor can I guess where his eternal destiny is. But we always must remember that life is fragile and that this is not our home.
So I don't know if this helps or is really just a platitude in disguise, but I hope it helps you explain it to her. You know the situation in ways that I could not.
Andre
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Lanny Carlson
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02/03/2014 17:11 |
Skeffie,
I cannot say it more strongly -
God does NOT plan our death.
To suggest that every child who dies of malnutrition
or dies in a refugee camp
or is the victim of a drive-by shooting
is to make God into a cruel monster who would be worthy only of contempt!
Human sin is real and to suggest that those who victimize others were actually carrying out God's purposes
is to make a travesty of human responsibility.
To suggest that accidents are God's doing renders the very word meaningless.
If I jump off a building I can't blame God for not breaking the law of gravity to spare me.
GWhen our son-in-law died in a roll over auto accident a couple of years ago,
to suggest it wasn't really a accident but God's plan is repulsive.
Stuff happens, and we can't blame it on God, or accuse God for giving us a bad deal.
Rather, I find comfort in the shortest verse in the Bible - "Jesus wept."
That suggests that God is sympathetic with our suffering and that we never suffer alone.
It doesn't answer all our questions or take away the pain, but it does make it bearable.
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Catholica
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02/04/2014 09:23 |
Yes. that is a good point, God doesn't "plan" our death. But He does know the hour of our death, and He knows how we are going to die.
Involved is the mystery of free will. God allows people free will, and sometimes they make poor choices, and those choices end up hurting or killing others or themselves. It is this same free-will that enables us to love. If our will wasn't free, then our love would be forced, and that is not love at all. We were made to love God and that is all that we are called to do, is love God. And that of course also requires loving our neighbor.
God allows free will to operate, but yet he knows the outcomes because he is eternal. So some people have a shorter life than others. And that is a hard thing to accept. But we trust our lives into God's hands. It is his gift of life that He gave us, and it is His hand that keeps us alive at every moment. We are entirely dependent on God constantly for everything good we have. So a positive spin (which should never supplant or try to negate sorrow for loss) is that we should be so thankful to God for everything we have at every moment. I'm sure that at some point your aunt will thank God for the 21 years she had with your cousin. But losing a child is one of the hardest things, or so I am told.
The Gospel can paint such a beautiful picture. Tradition has it that when Jesus was taken down from the cross, he was laid in the arms of his mother, and she offered him up for the life of the world. Death is such a tragedy, but even our deaths can bring about good in our lives and the lives of others. It just takes time to recognize that, and trust in God to wait and see how.
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Matteo Masiello
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04/15/2014 05:06 |
Hi Skeffie,
I'm sorry for the loss in your aunt's life and yours as well. For me, it comes down to whether Christians think the soul (therefore us) are immortal. There are passages in the OT which reflect that the soul is not immortal (Ezekiel 18:4 and 18:20) as well as other references. Jesus says that God can destroy a soul (Matthew 10:28). Paul told us to seek immortality (Romans 2:5-7) and other places. If we believe in Jesus, then we will have everlasting life. So, I think that Christianity doesn't believe in the immortality of the soul. From what I gather, the idea of the immortal soul was integrated into Christian thought through the early Church Fathers who were influenced by Greek philosophy. You can take or leave that influence. This seems to be a matter of cherry picking as there are some Christians who may not like one aspect of the influence of Greek philosophy but utilize another.
I for one believe that the soul is immortal. If we come from an immortal being (God), then in some way we always existed in God. I mean, God really decide to do anything because all of His thoughts and desires would always exist with him. So, I also think, then, that God does "plan" our death - as everything is laid out in the unfolding to time, events, and causality. What none of us know, though, is God's intentions of "why" He is doing all of this. In believing this, then, I don't think death is something to be feared. I don't think anything bad ultimately happens. It cannot of God has supreme authority, which He does. So, Satan doing whatever he is going to do has no real impact because God is the one in charge. God allows Satan to do what he does (see Job on this). Why? Well, we don't get an answer. So, if the soul is immortality, then death doesn't have any sting. There is nothing really bad in death.
I think that the whatever the reason, the only thing that matters is that when bad things happen, when sorrow and pain and loss is experienced what needs to be done is not ripping our clothes and shouting why to the heavens, but the implementation of compassion. If I experience a loss, then others around me become Christ (or should) by being with me in the loss. If someone experiences loss, then I am obligated to become Christ to them being with them. It is a perfectly natural thing to shake our fist at heaven and place a value on loss but that value will reflect a more egocentric tendency we have. A death may be seen as bad, but it is also good in that it will bring that person closer to Christ. It will bring others (hopefully) to Christ. It will have an effect is what I am saying that can only lead to reconciliation with God.
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