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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion

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Ray 03/18/2011 04:58
this is exactly what the Scriptures have been trying to wake us up
to for years. "Wake up, O sleeper...Be very careful, then, how you
live...because the days are evil" (Eph. 5:14-16). Or as The Message
has it: "So watch your step. Use your head. Make the most of every
chance you get. These are desperate times!" Christianity isn't a
religion about going to Sunday school, potluck suppers, being nice,
holding car washes, sending our secondhand clothes off to Mexico.
This is a world at war. Something large and immensely dangerous
is unfolding all around us, we are caught up in it, and above all
we doubt we have been given a key role to play. Do you think I'm
being too dramatic? (Waking the Dead , 29-30)

prayer is critical. we need to be connected to our head, as
soldiers need to radio back to the field commander.
Nana99 03/18/2011 06:24
Ray,

It was a timely topic for me because I was just listening to The Hope of Prayer on my way from work this evening and Eldredge mentioned the quote from Chambers.


""Your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask Him." Then why ask? The idea of prayer is not in order to get answers from God; prayer is perfect and complete oneness with God. If we pray because we want answers, we will get huffed with God. The answers come every time, but not always in the way we expect, and our spiritual huff shows a refusal to identify ourselves with Our Lord in prayer. We are not here to prove God answers prayer; we are here to be living monuments of God's grace."


It's interesting, but I am somewhat puzzled by the concept of "oneness" or "identifying yourself with God". We are all urged to imitate Christ, but we tend to fall short. Eldredge emphasizes the effectiveness of "holiness" and I agree when he says that holy people are like spiritual snipers and they get things done in prayer. However, I am not sure if the day would ever come when I become holy enough to feel oneness with God.

My take on oneness is that it's more than just a relationship. I think it is a desire to want to be united with Him. No separation, complete unity. But "identifying yourself with God"? As a sinner, can you ever identify yourself with God?

Can anyone shed a light on this?

Nana
Jenna in Austin 03/18/2011 11:21
Where can we download "The Hope of Prayer"?
Ted C 03/18/2011 14:07
Here are some thoughts.

Prayer edifies our spirits:

John 4:24
"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

1 Corinthians 14:2-4
"For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church."

Romans 8:26
"In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words"

Prayer aligns us with God's heart on a matter.

Philippians 4:6-8
"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things."

1 Thessalonians 5:16-24
"Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil. Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass."

Psalm 107:1,2
"Oh give thanks to the LORD, for He is good, for His lovingkindness is everlasting. Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom He has redeemed from the hand of the adversary."

Prayer is how God chooses to allow us to partner with Him in accomplishing His work on earth.

2 Corinthians 4:5-7
"For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, 'Light shall shine out of darkness,' is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves."

James 5:13-18 (Read this in light of the passage above, and in light of 1 John 1:9)
"Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises. Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. Then he prayed again, and the sky poured rain and the earth produced its fruit."

Matthew 18:18
"Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

Psalm 22:3 (KJV)
"But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel."

Psalm 149:4-9
"Let the godly ones exult in glory; Let them sing for joy on their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand, to execute vengeance on the nations and punishment on the peoples, To bind their kings with chains and their nobles with fetters of iron, to execute on them the judgment written; this is an honor for all His godly ones. Praise the LORD!"

Finally, praying renews our minds.

Psalm 51:6-15
"Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, and in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom. Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me to hear joy and gladness, let the bones which You have broken rejoice. Hide Your face from my sins and blot out all my iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me away from Your presence and do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of Your salvation and sustain me with a willing spirit. Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, and sinners will be converted to You. Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, the God of my salvation; then my tongue will joyfully sing of Your righteousness. Lord, open my lips, that my mouth may declare Your praise."

Romans 12:1,2
"Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect."
Ray 03/18/2011 15:40
Nana,

I just want to offer some simple thoughts about oneness with God. I think so often we slam ourselves because we are not good enough. Your post has a bit of that flavor. "I am not sure if the day would ever come when I become holy enough to feel oneness with God."

I think this whole thing is mysterious, but something to be pursued anyway. It is not something we work to attain. I think maybe humble is heading toward it. I like the way JE approaches this whole idea. Well, if you don't know what to do, then ask Him. Tell God what you want. Put it out there. He loves it when we do that. God, I want to be more holy than yesterday. I want to be more set apart then last week. What should I do? He is in it with us and for us and is able to make all grace abound.

I just finished this book a few weeks ago, "Crazy Love," by Francis Chan. It does two thing is this area really well. It shows us how loving God is to us and it shows us how unlovable we really are. Actually, how we are not really committed. We mostly are in this to receive. It is very inspirational in the idea of making you want to ask the Lord these things, ask Him everything. I think that asking is step one in walking towards that which Chambers/Eldredge wrote.
GodB4Me 03/18/2011 16:05
my two cents.....
When I pray in regards to specific situations, I think "Thy will be done" means to me that I am giving it to Him, and whatever I do or don't "get" I am accepting "it".... that's what "Thy will be done" means to me...
Ray 03/18/2011 19:52
"Your post has a bit of that flavor."

I just realized how unholy my post was. Perhaps it's cause I was out splitting wood. Yeah, that's it. Splitting wood is good prayer time. Anyway, I've always been Mr. Passive-Agressive, and what I wrote stinks of it. Here is what I meant to say. It comes form THOP, too:

"I am not sure if the day would ever come when I become holy enough to feel oneness with God."

You know what? That's exactly what the evil one wants you to think. He's really thrilled when we take that stance (I'm not talking about you, Nana. I'm talking about all or us). We are saints, spared from death and hell by the risen Lord of Hosts, our own Jesus Messiah. We are saints who sometimes sin. It happens, it's ugly here and we fall. If we can't conceive of ever making it into the walking well and long Him, then what are we saying about his sacrifice? That it isn't good enough? We don't believe that. No, the problem is we think it is our job to obtain oneness with God. It isn't. It is His work and He is most capable of completing the good work in you, the full rescue from this quagmire. No, He is able. When you say you can't picture it, you are looking at if from your past behavior. It is really an insult if you think about it. Jesus wants you to look at Him. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. Don't fall for the lie. Oh yes, you WILL walk closer with the Lord. He is committed to it. Nothing Satan can do will stop it for happening. That's you're confession. Start there. Starting anywhere else and we are stuck depending on our own strength which as we all know is ... lame, blind, lost, and fallen.
It's not about you. It's all about Him. The epic is all around you and you have a part to contribute. How sweet is that? What a wild lover we have!
Ray 03/19/2011 06:27
Yeah, what Brian said, "It's profoundly important to never forget who we are."
Nana99 03/19/2011 10:12
Ray, Ted C, Lisa,

When I was praying last night, a thought came to my mind, and it was similar to what Ted C wrote.

>> Prayer aligns us with God's heart on a matter.

Lord knows our needs before we even ask. He also knows what’s best for us. So praying against His will is not only counter-productive but also ineffective. I guess praying is about aligning our thoughts with His and drawing His power in agreement, like that persistent widow.

Ray, thanks for clearing things out for me. Like you have pointed out, I tend to focus on my (our) shortcomings and unworthiness, and forget about his amazing grace. Sins separate us from God. But we inevitably fall short. That’s where Jesus comes in and reunites us with God, by giving us unmerited forgiveness and exclusive access to our Father. But that’s not to say we are free to sin. Yet we shouldn’t struggle with our own might. We ask for his help, because He wants to help us, and it was He who first loved us... I guess I need to pray more for epiphany. So you split wood. For real? How cool is that.

I am encouraged by the words of Chambers. That the answers come every time we pray. That’s good to know.

Jenna,

The Hope of Prayer can be downloaded here in MP3 format.

http://www.dailyaudiobible.com/Groups/1000043434/Daily_Audio_Bible/Resources/Resources.aspx

Nana
Jake Van Horn 03/20/2011 14:16
I'm not sure if its already been said, I just skimmed all the above posts, but when we say "Your will be done" we are acknowledging God's total control over our lives along with our total dependence on Him in all things.

In Matthew 6:10 this phrase is include in how Christ instructed us to pray.

I know for me when I say this in prayer sometimes its when I just don't know what to pray for. I know God certainly doesn't need anyone's permission for control of their life, but approaching the throne room of God with a humble and repentant heart through prayer is critical.
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