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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion

Friend in crisis! Doubting God's goodness...why wrath?
Im at a time in my walk where God is revealing His authority but cradled in His love. I have always leaned more toward His Grace and Love and steered from the authority as Lord and all Holy....if that makes sense. If you love Me you will keep my commands...or the story in the New Testiment where they hid treasure's under there tent and were confronted and the husband immediatly died and then the wife too! WOW! Talk about fear of the Lord! So Im starting to grasp this side of God...slowly. So then a friend just the other day of FB sends me this msg. upset that she had no idea that God sent plague's and the passover story and the first son's being killed...she was upset asking how can an all loving God do this horrible stuff...and I answered He is all loving but He is also all Holy and without Jesus His wrath would still be pouring out not to mention that He was delivering His people! But...then coming back to the story in the New Testiment...that was still God's wrath...I dont really get it?? But I will not be shaken because I know He loves me..Im not turning away...this is a tough question(s)...Im not even sure what the exact question is...lol...maybe someone can help....
mdbunch 04/21/2011 01:02

Replies:
Jake Van Horn 04/21/2011 01:57
I've found my self right there with you, so many times with many of these stories and every time I end up at the same place, God is God and I'm not.

Romans 8:28 says "and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose.

For the life of me I can not wrap my head around it but, "all things" mean "all things". for me this is very comforting and helps me put to rest the scripture I can not understand and accept hard truths I would rather ignore.

And then I remember that the creator of the world submitted Him self unto death on a cross, which was made from a tree that he created, pierced with nails made from minerals he formed, by men who were given breath through Him and suddenly many of these stories that cause me to question the heart of God are quickly put into perspective. I have heard it said and I think there is quite a bit of truth in it, that every difficult question is seen clearly when Christ is put in the center of it.

Lamentations 3:23

Because of the Lord's great love we are not consumed, for his compassion's never fail. They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.
Kurt 04/22/2011 07:58
The book of ecclesiastes comes to my mind in thinking of your friends question. When you think of a man or woman's life it is but a vapor even if we live to be a 100 years old.

Ecclesiastes 6:3-6
A man may have a hundred children and live many years; yet no matter how long he lives, if he cannot enjoy his prosperity and does not receive a proper burial,
I say that a still born child is better off than he. It comes without
meaning, it departs in darkness, and in darkness its name is shrouded.
Though it never saw the sun or knew anything, it has MORE rest than does that
man -- even if he lives a thousand years twice over but fails to enjoy his
prosperity."

The point of reference is thinking about death from God's vantage point.
We will all die. God can give life and take it away. But children are a gift from God. God's judgement during the passover was not against the babies, but against those who stubbornly refused God. The babies that died on passover went straight to heaven since God is a perfect judge, and they could not be held accountable for their sin since they never had a chance to know the truth.

Think of it from that vantage point. Not that these babies died. They entered rest going back to God. Maybe there were those families who actually repented and turned to the Living God when their cherished first born son was suddenly taken away from them. These babies lives were not in vain, but God used it for good.

James 4:14
"Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life?
You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes."
Kelley 04/25/2011 22:58
This is one of those things that only sort of make sense to me if I am doing the best that I can in my pitifully small way to put myself in God's shoes. I see it like to Him.... humanity had fallen and we had all become lost. Each of us were traveling our way to death with no possibility of anything more. Men were progressively evil. But God had a redemption plan that entailed the birth of a child, God incognito, into a race reserved for that purpose. The protection of that race was a vital part of that plan. Like all of God's plans, it would be opposed. The battle would be fierce and span millenium. They needed a land, a heritage to pull them together, a common journey that interwove them. A battle to fight to make them strong. A walk day by day with their God. God was willing to do whatever it took. Without His willingness we would all be lost. No one would be left. He never chose that any should die. We pretty much did that on our own. He chose that somehow, someway, SOME should live.
TRWord 05/06/2011 16:42
mdbunch wrote;

So then a friend just the other day of FB sends me this msg. upset that she had no idea that God sent plague's and the passover story and the first son's being killed...she was upset asking how can an all loving God do this horrible stuff...
===================================

This is a common misunderstanding because we fail to realize that there are two covenants. The old covenant “the fear of the Lord” which is full of wrath and vengeance and the new covenant which reveals a God of love.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

The fear of the Lord is the old covenant and the knowledge of the holy is the new covenant.

Our baptism represents repentance and should signify the death of the old understanding and the birth of the new. Unfortunately repentance has been misunderstood to mean feeling sorry for our sins which is part responsible for the mixing of the two understandings.
John T 05/06/2011 21:21
I was listening to a message today about the parable of the houses built on the sand and the rock. The interesting part is that the storms came for both! So there will be tough times whether we are in Christ or not. I thought that was a timely message. God allows storms at times.
Jessica 05/17/2011 14:11
I remember Job 38-42. After all the horrible stuff Job's been through, and God hasn't stopped happening, God doesn't explain exactly why he's let it happen. He DOES say - look, I created the whole universe. I created you. I know all the secrets, every feature of the history of the Earth, from how many leaves fell yesterday, to the very hour that time began. Believe me - I know what I'm doing. (My paraphrase - obviously you should read the chapters, God's own word explains it infinitely better!)God does allow some stuff to happen that horrifies us, but he is completely trustworthy, even when we don't understand why.

Also - if God is a God of love - how could he allow the Egyptians to continue enslaving his people? How could he NOT be angry at what they were doing, how could he not act? Pharoah had nine previous plagues to repent, and he didn't - he saw these wonders, and wouldn't change his mind, you can't say God didn't give him a chance! I don't believe God would have sent the angel of death if there was another way, because 2 Peter 3:9 says "...he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." When I was a child, if I hurt my brother, I would be punished. My parents would still love me, but they couldn't let me get away with it - and rightly so. I had to learn. And we have learned from the Egyptians for thousands of years, that all the evil going on today? God's not just going to sit there and put up with it. Everyone will have to answer for what they have done.

Which is why I am SO glad Jesus is going to be speaking up for me, because I couldn't be rewarded with heaven after some of the things I've done. Unless Jesus took that punishment for me. Proof - as someone above has already said - that God IS a God of love. His own son suffered the punishment I deserve.

...I hope somewhere in that is something valuable for your friend. :)
Calico 05/21/2011 10:12
Heya, mdbunch,

"this is a tough question(s)...Im not even sure what the exact question is...lol...maybe someone can help"

I have a decent audio/video resource to offer to you, if you wish it. It helps to frame the matter of suffering, rather clearly and with good balance I believe. Let me know if you'd like the series (free ;-) ).

I hope to also say: the FEELINGS that your friend seems to be experiencing are GOOD things to feel, in her current thinking. Encourage her that those feelings are not the end-point of her discoveries with God (ie. "I feel this way, so now I am concluding my relationship with God"), instead her feelings are the start-point of her strengthening and deepening her relationship with God (ie. "I've discovered something that saddens me, Lord, help me to understand more about you"). Not that she is ACTUALLY one extreme or the other of this line of thinking, mind you. I just hope to encourage YOU to encourage HER that "there's much more to this than a 'sound bite' of Bible-reading."

The resource might also help you with building-you-up, mdbunch, since the matter of looking more closely at the suffering, violence, and evil are things in the biblical accounts almost always causes people (whether they are or are not Christians) to wrestle with the answers to offer to others. Your being proactive in your own efforts can be a way of equipping yourself to be ready to "...preach the word of God. Be persistent, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching." (2 Tim 4:2; NLT).

Praying with you, mdbunch,

Tom
Calico 05/21/2011 10:17
eeks, no edit button,

"...are things in the biblical accounts almost always causes people..." should read "...are things WITHIN the biblical accounts THAT almost always cause people..."
Bibleman 05/22/2011 17:46
TRWord, you are a Marcionite. Probably other things too, but certainly a Marcionite.
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