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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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John T
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06/25/2011 18:04 |
This whole levels of understanding thing sounds a whole lot like the new age stuff that goes around. Concerning.
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Craig from Illinois
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06/25/2011 20:34 |
Thanks for that link TRWord... I am finally tracking with your constant drum beat about what happened in the Garden. This is fascinating even if it is heretical to orthodoxy; which is kinda your whole point.
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Davidwayne Lackey
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06/25/2011 20:41 |
This is nothing new JohnT. The Revealed Word has been been going on since the early 1900's. Started by someone in India claiming Jesus was actually a new incarnation of their lord. They used the 3 wise men from the east as proof. They believe in Jesus but not the New Testament version of Jesus. This is where the Mystical Jesus theology started. It is called The Revealed Word.
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TRWord
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06/26/2011 09:40 |
Craig from Illinois wrote:
Thanks for that link TRWord... I am finally tracking with your constant drum beat about what happened in the Garden. This is fascinating even if it is heretical to orthodoxy; which is kinda your whole point.
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Craig it would be a shame if you focus on what you call “ the constant drum beat about what happened in the Garden” because you’ll conclude as you have that it’s “the whole point.” The whole point is when and how Christianity ceased being discipleship to the Lord’s teaching and became the belief in the Nicene Creed, the Chalcedonian Creed, the Athanasian Creed and so on and the consequence there after.
Today’s Christian is no less in bondage to the things of the world than an atheist. Should he get a headache he reaches for an alleve just as the atheist does. He is overburdened with fear over what he shall eat and what he shall drink. Even though he was commanded:
Matt. 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Matt. 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Why ?
Because he has chosen a doctrine that has been contrived by the god of this world which keeps him blinded and lost instead of the word of the Lord which would have set him free.
2 Cor. 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2 Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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TRWord
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06/26/2011 09:46 |
Davidwayne Lackey wrote:
This is nothing new JohnT. The Revealed Word has been been going on since the early 1900's. Started by someone in India claiming Jesus was actually a new incarnation of their lord. They used the 3 wise men from the east as proof. They believe in Jesus but not the New Testament version of Jesus. This is where the Mystical Jesus theology started. It is called The Revealed Word.
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Jesus taught that we must be motivated by the quest for truth more than the desire to protect tradition and old doctrines if we are to ever grasp His message.
But many like the High priest who persuaded the multitude to ask for Barabbas and destroy Jesus believe their purpose is to protect a doctrine that has kept us all in bondage.
So what was new age last week and dangerous to bible believing christians is more dangerous this week because it’s from the far east.
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Craig from Illinois
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06/26/2011 15:29 |
TR... I am just saying that over and over in these threads you bring up the Garden allegory as a starting point to understanding. I couldn't figure out why that was until I read your thesis. But I do have some questions...
Why can't the "Garden of Eden" allegory be both? You say that it's allegorical to the concept that belief in good and evil; (a presence and power other than God), separated man from God. Mainstream Christianity sees it as man's fall from grace based on the idea of disobedience and punishment. Then you said in point #6 on your blog, "If we misunderstand it (the story of the Garden, fruit, etc.), then it’s inevitable that we’ll misunderstand everything that follows."
With your conclusions that are based on this starting point, you miss out of plenty of scripture that concerns atonement, sacrifice and propitiation. Perhaps mainstream Christianity does miss out on a lot of "follow the teachings of Jesus". That is a huge problem! But could it be possible that the work on the cross WAS more than you claim in point #73 in your blog when you said "And how few is the number of us who believe that salvation is in what Jesus Christ taught and that He died and was resurrected to bear witness to the Truth."
Could it be possible that both you and mainstream Christianity is right? Could Christ bear witness AND be atoning?
I'm not comfortable with how you are only selecting verses to prove your thesis. But I'm not comfortable with 5 point Calvinism either.
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Suedawn
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06/26/2011 17:13 |
Hi all,
I’m a little late to the party and will first confess that I haven’t read every word in this thread.
I did want to say some things about “Quakers”. Quakers have a rich history and originally called themselves Friends, citing John 15:15. The term Quaker was used in a derogatory manner, making fun of them “quaking” before God. Some adopted the name.
I belong to an evangelical Friends church, which, in part believes…
“in one eternal, omnipresent, unchanging, personal God; perfect in holiness, wisdom, love, power, and justice without preceding cause or beginning; creator and preserver of all things, visible and invisible.
He exists as one divine being and yet as a trinity of three distinct persons, identical, inseparable, and equal in divinity, power and eternity: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
God revealed Himself in the past in many and various ways, though supremely in the person of Jesus Christ. He continues to reveal Himself today through His creation, the Holy Scriptures, and the workings of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of people.”
If you’re interested there’s more at http://www.firstfriends.org/about-us/doctrine .
Friends believed that everyone was equal, which lead them to being involved with the abolition of slavery, suffrage, and prison reform. They believed everyone was entitled to an education, not just the rich, and started many of the first schools in this country. Pennsylvania was founded as a refuge for Quakers being persecuted in England.
Early “Quaker Meetings” did not have a set service, but everyone sat quietly before God, and all were allowed to speak messages God had given them. Many don’t believe in practicing baptism or communion during service, because of churches that taught that you could not be saved unless you were baptized or took communion.
They believe in “plain living”, using your resources to help others, rather than have better “things” for yourself.
I do know there are Quaker/Friends churches that have different practices, but they very much started out rooted in scripture. I’ll get off my soapbox now.
Sue
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jonathonbyrd
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06/27/2011 02:18 |
The bible makes it pretty clear that we are to TURN from our sin, not that we are to FORGET our sin. I'm sorry TR but God is not trying to trick us, He makes His word pretty easy to understand. You don't have to have somebody decode it for you.
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TRWord
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06/27/2011 08:54 |
Craig asked?
“Could Christ bear witness AND be atoning?”
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Atonement means the reparation of that which was wrong.
What was wrong?
We had become separated from our Father cause by a violation of the truth. Jesus came to reveal the truth that would reconcile us to the Father or that which would repair that which was wrong.
His passion, His death on the cross and His subsequent resurrection was the sacrifice He made to prove that what He said was true.
The mainstream idea of disobedience and punishment adds propitiation; “the need to appease God” to the understanding of atonement.
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John T
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06/27/2011 22:14 |
And where does imputed righteousness fit in TR?
Our sins were put upon him and his righteousness was put upon us
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