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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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jonathonbyrd
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07/03/2011 13:03 |
Thank you John T.
TR simply wrote this off by saying that it was what I believed and that it would mean that we didn't need a Lord if it where true. TR attached this to me instead of the bible, then he wrote it off with his own opinion.
It seems pretty blatant to me that TR has either never read the bible himself and was simply taught this viewpoint, or God has not revealed to TR the scriptures.
2 Timothy 2:19
New International Version (NIV)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
This is the only known reference to God signing a contract. “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” This is not an option, it is sealed with God's inscription. This does not say that we need to ignore wickedness, but instead it says that we need to turn away from it.
Luke 24
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
DO YOU SEE THIS TR? Jesus opened the understanding of the scriptures to his disciples and then he tells them what is written, he tells them what the understanding of ALL scripture is, right here. Can you tell me what verse 47 says TR? I can tell you that it surely doesn't say that we are to IGNORE WICKEDNESS.
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jonathonbyrd
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07/04/2011 05:11 |
This should clear things up:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=10150248970613840
I've studied this topic a hundred times. The above article is my formal breakdown of my studies. Please revise and let me know if there are any problems. I'd love to see some friend requests too :)
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Ray
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07/04/2011 13:55 |
Jonathon,
Thanks for your work. One suggestion to think about is the use of the word 'loophole.' Not that is is incorrect, but it has a sleazy, slick lawyer feel in common use.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loophole
"a means of escape; especially : an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded"
while the first part of the definition is right on target:
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
the second part is the common use is a little bit about injustice. This is not what the the Lord is about. It is the full expression of the Love that He is.
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Ray
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07/04/2011 14:19 |
another minor note, JB. It would be nice if the links at the end were active.
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TRWord
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07/05/2011 15:33 |
Jonathonbyrd wrote:
It seems pretty blatant to me that TR has either never read the bible himself and was simply taught this viewpoint, or God has not revealed to TR the scriptures.
=========================
I cannot remember how many times in this community that I have been asked if I believe that Jesus is God. I’m sure that you all believe that you believe. But where is the evidence. Those who believe realize the infallibility of His word and therefore hang on His every word. You all confess Him as your saviour but which of you know Him as Lord and Saviour. He came to reveal all truth and He taught on all things including sin.
Jonathon believes that our sins separate us from God but Jesus taught that we sin because we are separated from God.
Matthew 5: 17-48 Jesus teaches on sin.
He begins the lesson saying; Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time; which is the old understanding, and He gave us the new understanding by saying; But I say unto you.
Matt. 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Matt. 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Thou shalt not kill was the old commandment but Jesus is teaching that being angry with our brother or calling him a fool is enough to endanger our soul. Again thou shalt not commit adultery was the old commandment but Jesus is teaching that just the temptation or to lust when we look at a woman is sufficient to endanger our soul.
Jesus is teaching that it’s not just the big things like murder and adultery that endangers our soul but it’s also the little things that we do all the time.
He ends the lesson with the commandment:
Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Here Jesus reveals here that it’s only through our reconciliation to the Father can we be perfected because without reconciliation we are in sin and will continue to sin.
To make this clearer He also said:
Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
He said that all sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, all but one.
He said that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall never be forgiven
Those who believe His word ask the question what is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost?
Those who don’t believe hardly notice the verse.
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jonathonbyrd
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07/06/2011 03:35 |
TR, said:
"Jonathon believes that our sins separate us from God but Jesus taught that we sin because we are separated from God."
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Sorry, not my interpretation of the bible, I've just read it.
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
2 Timothy 2:19
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,”a and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Psalm 5:5
5 Arrogant people won’t last long in your sight; you hate all evildoers;
Deuteronomy 31:16-17
16 And the LORD said to Moses: “You are going to rest with your ancestors, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. 17 And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and calamities will come on them, and in that day they will ask, ‘Have not these disasters come on us because our God is not with us?’
Judges 10:13
But you have forsaken me and served other gods, so I will no longer save you.
Jeremiah 12:7
“I will forsake my house, abandon my inheritance; I will give the one I love into the hands of her enemies.
Mark 15:34
And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
Jesus became sin and God forsake Him for the first time in all of eternity. Why do you not think that if you become sinful, that God will not forsake you TR?
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Catholica
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07/06/2011 05:54 |
TRWord, you say that you believe Jesus is God, and I believe you. Question though, because you believe that God is omnipresent, do you also believe that /you/ are God? If so, is this similar to or the same as what you mean that Jesus is God?
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TRWord
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07/06/2011 14:23 |
Catholica wrote:
TRWord, you say that you believe Jesus is God, and I believe you. Question though, because you believe that God is omnipresent, do you also believe that /you/ are God? If so, is this similar to or the same as what you mean that Jesus is God?
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The omnipresent of God is a problem for all those who don’t believe whether they are new age or mainstream believers. New age believers misinterpret it to mean that they are gods and mainstream believers cannot accept it because they need room for the devil and the existence of the devil precludes the omnipresence of God.
First Jesus said:
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
To those who believe there is therefore no question that the Father and the Son are One.
On the question of the omnipresence of God, Jesus said it this way:
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Here Jesus reveals that God is an omnipresent spirit that’s is the Father that’s in Him and that’s in us.
God is an omnipresent spirit that expresses itself in three persons as the Father as the Son and as the Holy Ghost. Jesus reveal John(14:16&17) that the Holy Ghost which He describes as our Comforter and which He also calls the Spirit of Truth dwells in us.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
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Catholica
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07/06/2011 14:49 |
Chris, you say that "New age believers misinterpret (God's omnipresence) to mean that they are gods". How is this different from what you believe? I take it to mean that you don't believe that you are "a god". But do you believe that you "are" God, just as Jesus "is" God?
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jonathonbyrd
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07/06/2011 15:07 |
I'm definitely not a new age christian and I'm not a mainstream believer either. I merely obey as I'm commanded to do, falling short of my call because of my lack of self control of course.
I can see how mainstream believers cannot accept the omnipresence of God because THEY need room for the devil.
The existence of the devil does not preclude the omnipresence of God. If you know God, then you know that He sustains everything, using the devil as an object to do His will. Just as God used the nations around israel to judge israel when they disobeyed God.
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