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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Ted C
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06/15/2011 13:23 |
TR, it sounds like you believe in evil, but only evil that was caused or created by people having believed in it first. Would that be an accurate statement? Or is no act or circumstance of human volution actually "evil"; there really is nothing evil and we are incapable of committing it even if we lie / cheat / steal / kill / etc.(those aren't actually evil; they are just perceived as evil)?
Please clarify. Thanks!
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Marcie in MO
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06/15/2011 20:21 |
TRWord said:
To me the question is; if evil exist why did God command Adam not to believe in it and why did Jesus command us not to resist it.
But that is not the question I asked you. I asked why would Jesus drive them out and speak to them if they don't exist? Why would He confuse the issue like that?
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John T
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06/15/2011 22:49 |
(seems kind of like another highjacked thread... Anything you jump into TRWord comes back to this evil is the belief in itself thing)
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Ted C
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06/16/2011 01:09 |
I'd still like the clarification asked for three messages above. Thanks!
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TRWord
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06/16/2011 04:49 |
Ted C wrote;
TR, it sounds like you believe in evil, but only evil that was caused or created by people having believed in it first. Would that be an accurate statement?
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Yes that is what I believe.
We have Mother Theresa and Jeffery Dahmer because we believe in good and evil which we were commanded not to.
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Catholica
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06/16/2011 08:40 |
But yet, someone believed in evil, and so evil exists. So isn't it denial, if evil exists, to not believe in evil? What /is/ evil?
To answer your previous question about Satan, we (Catholics) believe that Satan is a fallen angel. He was not created fallen, that is, he was not created to be evil. For a moment all angels were given a choice, and that choice was to serve God or reject Him. Some angels chose to reject God, and so became demons. The others chose to serve God. He gave the angels this choice because first, God wants every rational creature to serve him by choice, not by force. If they could not choose, they would not be truly free, and they/we can only truly love another if we are also truly free.
And so God gave the angels a choice and some fell. This choice reflects God's goodness, because even though the demons try to manipulate us, God is still truly in charge, and he only allows them to do what he knows we need anyway for our own sanctification. This is truly frustrating for them, because in a way their malice is only serving God anyway for the betterment of human persons.
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TRWord
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06/16/2011 10:22 |
Marcie asked:
I asked why would Jesus drive them out and speak to them if they don't exist? Why would He confuse the issue like that?
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It’s all dependent on what we believe. The woman with an issue of blood believed that if she could just touch the hem of His garment that she would be made whole.
The man who had devils for a long time believed that he was possessed by unclean spirits. Therefore Jesus had to cast out the uncleanl spirits that he believed were in him or else he could not be made whole.
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Calico
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06/16/2011 10:24 |
Hi Christopher, and all
I am enjoying this thread immensely; I hope it is able to continue on as charitably as possible under the direction of the Spirit of Christ. Hugs to you all, if I may. :-)
So, again we come back to the question of evil. The thread seems to have taken a turn once again to the oft-discussed "belief in the knowledge of good and evil" being positioned as being problematic.
For the sake of agreed-upon terms regarding the new direction of the thread (may I offer?), perhaps we can firstly note that there is a distinguishing between moral evil and natural evil. At this point in the discussion at hand, the discussion now seems to be directed at the former, and not the latter. However, it can be pointed out that both moral evil and natural evil stem from the same root problem.
Where Andre has asked stated and asked "isn't it denial, if evil exists, to not believe in evil? What /is/ evil?", I'll second the question to you, Christopher: can you provide to us a way to describe what evil is?
(I hope, while asking similarly as Andre has, that I do not appear as "commandeering the question;" but a definition of evil is extremely important to agree upon/or disagree upon, because in doing so we may then be able to establish a framework for how free-willed ascent is at least part-of how evil has a current outcome in this world.)
Praying with you all,
Tom
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Calico
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06/16/2011 10:28 |
Let me amend my closing sentence from "because in doing so we may then be able to establish a framework for how free-willed ascent is at least part-of how evil has a current outcome in this world," to "because in doing so we may then be able to establish a framework for how free-willed ascent is at least part-of how evil has a current outcome in this world, AS WELL AS how free-willed ascent is part-of how good comes about in this world."
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Ted C
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06/16/2011 13:22 |
TR, thank you for the clarification. That helps me understand much better what you believe. I appreciate it!
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