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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Davidwayne Lackey
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06/17/2011 23:00 |
Ray here is the other thread to give you more background on the present discussion. http://www.dailyaudiobible.com/Forums/Messages.aspx?ThreadID=1000027763&page=1
You will get a much clearer picture of what is really going on here with this thread as everything TRW talks about is seen through the lens of his interpretation of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
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TRWord
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06/18/2011 06:37 |
Hi Tom
You asked what is evil?
From my understanding of scripture evil is the belief in the absence of God or the belief in a presence other than God.
And this is what Jesus called blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. The belief in evil precludes the knowledge of the Holy Ghost.
Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
The knowledge of the Holy Ghost is the realization of the oneness of God.
One in Christ
Christopher
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TRWord
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06/18/2011 07:44 |
Hi Ray
You have given us an opportunity to recognize that different versions of the Bible give us very different understandings. I have used the King James as my standard because it's one of the oldest English translations and therefore much less doctoring has been done. Some like the newer translations, they say that they are more accurate because they came from older transcripts.
Eph. 6 KJV
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6 NIV
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Let’s take a look at Ephesians 6:12: The understanding given by the KJV Paul is referring to; “the rulers of the darkness of this world” who perpetrate what he called; “spiritual wickedness in high places.”
In the newer versions Paul seems to be referring to two things; the rulers of an undefined dark world which he calls “the powers of this dark world” and “against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.”
Here we have evil forces in heaven which I believe is the understanding of the translators; “the belief in good and evil,” creeping into the scriptures.
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Ray
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06/18/2011 07:46 |
Thanks, Tom and Davidwayne. I remember these going by, but I was busy with some other studies on how to spread the gospel.
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Ray
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06/18/2011 09:12 |
How is our need of armor explained in the model?
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Bibleman
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06/18/2011 10:08 |
LOL Ray! Amen!
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Catholica
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06/18/2011 13:31 |
TRWord, can you help us understand this verse?
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
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Catholica
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06/18/2011 19:16 |
What are these "heavenly places"?
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TRWord
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06/19/2011 06:37 |
Catholica
You asked; What are these "heavenly places"?
The understanding of Paul’s letters requires that we are students of the Lord’s teaching through which the understanding of heaven and earth is given. Paul speaks of “the heavenly places” again and again in this letter.
But notice what Paul said here;
Eph. 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Which Jesus also said this way:
Matt. 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Matt. 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
The common thread here is that some are predestined to understand.
Without His teaching heaven is misinterpreted as a place somewhere up in the sky and the statement; “He died on the cross for our sins;” is misinterpreted to mean that He died in our place for our wrong doings.
A very important verse in this letter is;
Eph. 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Which cannot be understood until we first receive the revelation of the following saying.
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
To understand “the heavenly places” you must first understand heaven.
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Craig from Illinois
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06/19/2011 08:25 |
TR... that doesn't sound like a God who desires to redeem the world. You're making God sound like the leader of a secret society with secret knowledge handed out to a few elite.
After reading and reading this thread and others on similar topics I have concluded that it would take a PhD in your theology to be saved. And even with a PhD, I would still need to be elect to grasp the mysteries. Since that runs contrary to every biblical salvation story, parable and teaching, I have to conclude that your theology is false.
My theology begins and ends with Grace. To the contrary, I see that yours at least ends with secret knowledge. I'm not sure if Grace begins with you or not. I certainly delight in the pursuit of knowing more about God and His Kingdom. But I certainly don't base my personal salvation on my own merits, which includes my intellectual achievements.
What do you have to say to this?
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