|
|
Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
| |
TRWord
|
10/28/2011 06:12 |
Marcie
Common understanding is founded on the misconception that disobedience and punishment is the message of the scriptures and God’s judgement is seen as God’s punishment for man’s wrong doings.
God’s judgement is the return to righteousness.
For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. (Psalms 94:14-15KJV)
God is love and it is His plan to return all to rightness.
The false prophet is “man’s religious misconceptions;” the belief in disobedience and punishment and the acceptance of Christ as a sacrifice and not the infallible word of God.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. (Revelation 19:11KJV)
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (Revelation 19:16KJV)
This is the judgement of the beast and the false prophet.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:19-20KJV)
|
| |
Marcie in MO
|
10/28/2011 08:15 |
TR, what does that have to do with the passage I posted which very clearly says "...for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood..."
|
| |
Ray
|
10/28/2011 14:20 |
I "think" what Christopher is getting at with the example/sacrifice question is we have responsibility. I agree with that. Perhaps he sees all of us as having taken advantage of "cheap grace," in that Jesus paid it all and so I'm not responsible for my sin if I continue in it. That does happen, hence the statements in Romans 6. But this is elementary and levied with heaviness, no joy and encouragement. It's the religious way and religion is dead.
The real challenge is hearing the voice of the Lord and learning how to do that is why we are here. That's what we need to hear about. That's what we need to attain to. It is a process and we are not alone in it. Eldredge writes:
"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth." (John 16:12-13)
There's more that Jesus wants to say to you, much more, and now that his Spirit resides in your heart, the conversation can continue. Many good people never hear God speak to them personally for the simple fact that they've never been told that he does. But he does-generously, intimately. "He who belongs to God hears what God says" (John 8:47).
The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice . . . I am the good shepherd. (John 10:2-4, 11)
You don't just leave sheep to find their way in the world. They are famous for getting lost, being attacked by wild animals, falling into some pit, and that is why they must stay close to the shepherd, follow his voice. And no shepherd could be called good unless he personally guided his flock through danger. But that is precisely what he promises to do. He wants to speak to you; he wants to lead you to good pasture. Now, it doesn't happen in an instant. Walking with God is a way of life. It's something to be learned; our ability to hear God's voice and discern his word to us grows over time. As Brother Lawrence said it, we "practice the presence of God."
(Waking the Dead , 102-3)
Joy, Joy, Joy! Beauty for ashes! Let's roll!
|
| |
TRWord
|
10/29/2011 04:49 |
Marcie wrote:
TR, what does that have to do with the passage I posted which very clearly says "...for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood..."
==========================
Marcie
You interpret the scripture with the old Hebrew preconception that a sacrifice has to be offered for the forgiveness of sin, and Revelation 5:9 seems to support this preconception.
But does it?
Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
This verse says that we were redeemed to the Father by the blood of the lamb.
Christ spent over three years teaching the way of our redemption. Teaching that are the four gospels of Matthew, Mark , Luke and John.
He taught that He has power on earth to forgive sin and He said that forgiveness is an act of mercy which needs no sacrifice.
And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. And he arose, and departed to his house. (Matthew 9:4-7KJV)
But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:12-13KJV)
Jesus came to reveal the TRUTH; the power of the Spirit over the things of the earth and His blood was shed to demonstrate this TRUTH.
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. (John 10:17-18KJV)
It’s only by the Spirit and the knowledge of this TRUTH that we are are redeemed to the Father.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:23-24KJV)
Ray said it well here:
I "think" what Christopher is getting at with the example/sacrifice question is we have responsibility. I agree with that. Perhaps he sees all of us as having taken advantage of "cheap grace,"
|
| |
Ray
|
10/29/2011 09:11 |
You see, DABers, we all just started our flirting with Jesus just so we wouldn't get burned in the end. We just want the benefit, not the responsibility that being the body of Christ brings. It's yesterdays news. Don't go back to accusation. Press on in the walk to freedom. He is with you and loves where you are headed and he is walking with you so pray without ceasing. I think Eldredge does a good job of describing an aspect of life here that trips us up sometimes. Tear down the walls:
'Resignation is not just the sigh that groans with something gone wrong. Such a sigh can be redemptive if it does not let go of the Haunting we have all experienced of something presently lost. Resignation is the acceptance of the loss as final. It is the condition in which we choose to see good as no longer startling in its beauty and boldness, but simply as "nice." Evil is no longer surprising; it is normal.
It is from this place of heart resignation where many of us, perhaps all of us at one time or another, having suffered under the storm of life's Arrows, give up on the Sacred Romance. But our heart will not totally forsake the intimacy and adventure we were made for and so we compromise. We both become, and take to ourselves, lovers that are less dangerous in their passion for life and the possible pain that comes with it-in short, lovers that are less wild.
Those of us who have been drawn to understand that God is our Father through conversion in Christ recapture the Romance again-for a while. We find ourselves again in the throes of first love. The Romance we thought we had left behind once more appears out on the road ahead of us as a possible destination. God is in his heaven and all seems right in the universe.
But this side of Eden, even relationship with God brings us to a place where a deeper work in our heart is called for if we are to be able to continue our spiritual journey. It is in this desert experience of the heart, where we are stripped of the protective clothing of the roles we have played in our smaller stories, that the Message of the Arrows reasserts itself. Healing, repentance, and faith are called for in ways we have not known previously. At this place on our journey, we face a wide and deep chasm that refuses us passage through self-effort. And it is God's intention to use this place to eradicate the final heart walls and obstacles that separate us from him.'
(The Sacred Romance , 126, 127)
His love for everyone is so awesome, alive, deep, so wide. He doesn't want anyone to fall. Ez 33:10 “Son of man, say to the Israelites, ‘This is what you are saying: “Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because of[b] them. How then can we live?”’ 11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’
|
| |
John T
|
10/29/2011 12:00 |
Lots of interesting commentary... I think I'm going to hold my questions for now and wait and see :-) John T
|
| |
Ray
|
10/30/2011 07:02 |
The question for me is how to follow God daily. There is an 1.5 hour talk about how to practice and get better at that here. John talks about the living God and how we can relate to Him in each step. It is not just following rules. There's more:
http://www.walkingwithgod.net/tour-video.htm
|
| |
TRWord
|
10/31/2011 04:57 |
On bearing the cross of Jesus Thomas À Kempis said:
“Jesus hath now many lovers of His heavenly kingdom, but few bearers of His cross. He hath many desirous of consolation, but few of tribulation. He findeth many companions of his table, but few of His abstinence. All desire to rejoice with Him, few are willing to endure for Him.”
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. (Matthew 10:38KJV)
The kingdom of God is a journey. We cannot be motived only by the desire not to burn in the end.
There is a cross that we all must bear and there are commandments that we must heed if we are to see the kingdom of God.
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23KJV)
Our greatest struggle is to overcome age old beliefs and traditions that have been passed down from generation to generation which blind us to the TRUTH.
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. (Mark 7:7-8KJV)
|
| |
Ray
|
10/31/2011 20:57 |
charis ?????
of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
|
| |
Ray
|
11/01/2011 05:01 |
Heb 3:14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”
|
(page
1
2
3
4
5
6
7)
|
