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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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TRWord
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10/23/2011 06:00 |
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19KJV)
Matthew 5:17-47
Using the law of Moses as a reference, while reminding us that He didn’t come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it, Jesus reveals the higher requirement to enter the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:20KJV).
Example
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (Matthew 5:21-22KJV)
The law commands us “Thou shalt not kill” but Jesus is teaching here that being angry with our brother or calling him a fool endangers us of judgement and hell’s fire.
Under the old understanding we had a distant relationship with God. We perceived Him as far off in a distant realm of heaven, and our relationship with Him was one of hard and fast rules which we must obey or be punished.
Under the new understanding Jesus has revealed God as an omnipresent spirit, and here He is teaching us that we must never violate this Truth. So even that brother who may appear ungodly and disagreeable;
He is teaching us:
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24KJV)
We must know that the spirit of God dwells in him even if he doesn’t know this himself and we must know this for his sake as well as our own.
Galatians 4:22-31 Paul reveals the inner meaning of the story of Abraham’s two sons; the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. One born after the flesh and the other by promise. He reveals that these are the two covenants. The one from Mount Sinai; (the law of Moses) keeps us in bondage. This is the old covenant. He also reminds us that the scripture said that we (who are in Christ) should “cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman.”
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. (Galatians 4:30KJV)
The common theme here is, we must get rid of the old to make way for the new.
Even though the Jews believed in the coming of the Messiah they never accepted Jesus as He which was promised. Consequently to this day, the Jews remain in bondage to the law.
Likewise due to the doctrine of salvation through the cross which has steered many away from “the teaching of Jesus Christ” they too are now also in bondage to the law.
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Ted C
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10/23/2011 07:13 |
Hebrews 10:10 "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Revelation 13:8 (NIV) "All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world."
The Scriptures about a broken heart and contrite spirit, and about obedience being better than the need for sacrifice, do not negate the fact that the vehicle to forgiveness - the reason we can experience it - has always and only been Christ's sacrificial blood shed for us on the cross and His conquering death on our behalf.
In each case where Jesus transcended the Law of Moses, He explained why He was doing what He did. "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." "It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." Etc. Plus a slap on the face is not like someone trying to kill you or a family member. Jesus was saying to not respond with evil. Escalating a harmless insult is wrong. Being a willing party through inaction to the death or permanent scarring of a loved one when you are present and could intervene is also wrong.
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Lanny Carlson
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10/23/2011 07:47 |
Ted,
You said,
"In each case where Jesus transcended the Law of Moses, He explained why He was doing what He did. "
Of course, but the fact remains that he did transcend it, suggesting that there are times when the written word of the law strictly followed does not apply.
You also said,
"the vehicle to forgiveness - the reason we can experience it - has always and only been Christ's sacrificial blood shed for us on the cross and His conquering death on our behalf."
So, again, was Jesus not being truthful
when he extended forgiveness to people
even though he had not yet shed his blood on the cross?
Did the people in the Old Testament who thought they were forgiven
because they repented and asked for forgiveness wrong?
With all due respect,
we respectfully disagree,
and this exchange probably will not change that.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and for reading mine.
Grace and Peace, Brother.
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Craig from Illinois
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10/23/2011 08:07 |
I raised that point in my adult Sunday School class last week... what about Jesus forgiving sins prior to his death and Resurrection? I received blank stares! I have to admit that I can't make the actions of Jesus forgiving sins prior to the cross fit into my theory of the atonement doctrine. This thread is challenging to say the least!
How does believing or not believing in the atonement doctrine change anything in my day to day living? I've been living under the "Grace" doctrine already. Does "atonement and grace" look any different than "love and demonstration" in regards how I perceive life as it comes my way?
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John T
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10/23/2011 12:34 |
I was taught and believe that Jesus death and his sacrifice extends throughout time, once for all, to cover all those before and after. We exist in time, in this creation that God has made, but God and Christ exist outside of this, since they are the creators - they knew with such certainty that Jesus would do this that it likely already covered those before and after. There's power in His blood!
Enjoy,
Keep thinking!
John
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TRWord
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10/23/2011 14:47 |
In the book of Ecclesiastes the Preacher “Solomon” tells us that all earthly endeavors are vanities of vanities; futile.
Power and prestige, popularity and pleasure they are all vanities of vanities.
Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun? (Ecclesiastes 1:2-3KJV)
Seeking “the way to life” is man’s only worthwhile purpose. But Jesus has made it clear that “strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
The desire to be a part of the crowd must be squelched. We must have the courage to follow the spirit even if we find ourselves all alone when we do.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2 Cor. 6:17-18KJV)
The Lamb’s book of Life:
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15KJV)
The way to life is not a given, it’s a quest that requires our utmost desire and a single mindedness of purpose.
(Matthew 22:1-13)
And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, (Matthew 22:1KJV)
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. (Matthew 22:2-3KJV)
Just being religious will not show us the way to life and many who have even been called by the spirit will not find it.
Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. (Matthew 22:4KJV)
But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. (Matthew 22:5-6KJV)
Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” But many have gone their own way, abandoning His teaching, instead believing in contrived doctrine.
But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. (Matthew 22:7KJV)
Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. (Matthew 22:8KJV)
God’s plan of salvation was first given to the Jews.
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22)
But when they didn’t believe in Him it was then given to whosoever may come.
Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. (Matthew 22:9-10KJV)
And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. (Matthew 22:11-12KJV)
We will not be divided into believers and nonbelievers as most of us think. But we will be divided into those whose names are in the Lamb’s book of life and those who names are not.
“For many are called, but few are chosen.” (Matthew 22:14)
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 22:13KJV)
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John T
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10/23/2011 15:04 |
Hi Chris,
Sorry to ask a silly question, but I read through your post but didn't understand... What are you getting at?
Thanks!
John
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TRWord
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10/24/2011 05:48 |
Hi John
Jesus said it’s His word that is the way to salvation but you said that you were taught and you believe that it’s His blood.
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:31-32KJV)
Jesus knew the power of tradition and doctrine.
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. (Mark 7:7-8KJV)
Notice He said:
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14KJV)
Jesus predicted that the majority will choose the wrong way and few will discover the way to life.
Why?
Because he had the foreknowledge that the majority would accept “the traditional belief” in Him instead of He Himself.
Those who have accepted Christ pay absolute attention to what He said and they obey His commandments.
If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15KJV)
Christopher
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Ken Mikkelson
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10/24/2011 10:18 |
I am praying that my whole being will realize that Jesus Christ is the pearl of great price, my one and only focus, my savior, healer, the only one who is worthy of my worship. I pray that I will abide in him and him alone. And I pray that any false 'christs,' who present themselves as worthy of my time and devotion will be stripped away from me so that I am left with Christ alone as the satisfier of my soul.
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Ray
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10/24/2011 10:43 |
Christopher, I'm curious how the Holy Spirit fits into your religion? Thanks.
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