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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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TRWord
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10/25/2011 15:02 |
Ray
This is my style of writing. I quote the King James Version of the Bible and then I give my understanding of the verse.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. (Proverbs 9:10KJV)
The fear of the Lord is the old understanding and the knowledge of the holy is the message of Jesus Christ. The message of Jesus Christ reveals a God of love and not the God of wrath and vengeance of the old understanding.
I’m a disciple of the teaching of Jesus Christ. This is what you continually call my religion.
You said:
“Note the words you use in response to my question, "knowledge, understanding, and realization."
Are these strange words?
You also asked:
“What do you mean by "knowledge of the Holy Ghost?"
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:16-17KJV)
As the verse says the world cannot receive or know the Spirit of Truth which is the Holy Ghost. To know the Holy Spirit mean to receive the knowledge of the Holy Spirit.
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Ray
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10/25/2011 16:47 |
"Are these strange words?"
No, but the focus of them seems to be on human qualities and abilities. They have their limits in the Kingdom of God. To really live you have to die. Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me..."
"I’m a disciple of the teaching of Jesus Christ."
Following someones teachings seems pretty religious to me. It still depends on our human abilities and knowledge and nothing good can come from that. There has to be something more in the mix and I tried to get you to express some of that. It bounced off as best I can tell. I believe the giving of Holy Spirit proclaims the end of religion. He's alive and his steadfast love endures forever. No knowledge we can attain can even comes close to this most epic event that we get to be a part of. What do you think of that notion?
I know for a fact I can't follow Jesus' teachings. He has to do it in me. My abilities always fail. Don't yours?
BTW, Jesus didn't speak in the English of King James, so it don't see where it really matters which version you read. That behavior seems pretty religious, also. You have to go to the Hebrew and Greek no matter what English version you start with. Read 'em all. They all help us see the Bright Morning Star a little more clearly. Titus 1:15 "To the pure, all things are pure..."
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ"
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Lanny Carlson
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10/25/2011 20:00 |
Christopher,
I'm confused, and I understand Ray's frustration.
He asked,
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Lanny Carlson
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10/25/2011 20:10 |
Christopher,
I'm confused, and I understand Ray's frustration.
He asked,
"So, again, what do you mean by 'knowledge of the Holy Ghost?'"
and you responded,
"To know the Holy Spirit mean to receive the knowledge of the Holy Spirit."
You "answered" his question without answering it,
but simply repeating the very words he asked you to explain!
I won't try to put words in your mouth,
but looking at verse you quoted from John 14,
are you saying that knowledge of the Holy Spirit
is knowing that the Spirit is with us and dwells within us?
I think it might be helpful, too,
to remember that "knowing" in the Biblical sense
is often used to refer to intimacy,
involving not only intellectual knowledge
but union and relationship.
Knowing God, in that sense, is more that knowing facts.
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Ray
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10/26/2011 00:40 |
"used to refer to intimacy"
hear, hear! There's no other way! All else is vanity.
"How would you advise people who want to follow in your footsteps?"
"I think prayer is key. I would encourage people to follow and obey, and try to serve others one step at a time, whoever is in front of them. If there is an open door to go to a foreign country and it is something you want to explore, walk through the open door. Once you get there, God will open other doors and bring needs to you. And as you meet the needs right in front of you, he can build something different than we ever would have thought or planned."
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/novemberweb-only/katie-davis-adoption.html?start=2
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Ray
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10/26/2011 01:09 |
"No, life cannot be understood flat on a page. It has to be lived; a person has to get out of his head, has to fall in love, has to memorize poems, has to jump off bridges into rivers, has to stand in an empty desert and whisper sonnets under his breath:
I’ll tell you how the sun rose
A ribbon at a time . . .
It’s a living book, this life; it folds out in a million settings, cast with a billion beautiful characters, and it is almost over for you. It doesn’t matter how old you are; it is coming to a close quickly, and soon the credits will roll and all your friends will fold out of your funeral and drive back to their homes in cold and still and silence.
...
It might be time for you to go. It might be time to change, to shine out.
I want to repeat one word for you:
Leave.
Roll the word around on your tongue for a bit. It is a beautiful word, isn’t it? So strong and forceful, the way you have always wanted to be. And you will not be alone. You have never been alone. Don’t worry. Everything will still be here when you get back. It is you who will have changed." - Don Miller
http://donmilleris.com/2011/10/25/one-story-alone/
Yeah, Lanny, relationship, "never been alone." I'll get on my knees now.
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TRWord
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10/26/2011 05:57 |
Ray
You said:
“I know for a fact I can't follow Jesus' teachings. He has to do it in me. My abilities always fail. Don't yours?”
===================================
And there lies the problem.
Following Christ’s teaching has nothing to do with our abilities.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (John15:4-5KJV)
The first step is accepting the spirit.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3KJV)
Jesus introduces this new idea, “a man must be born again,” as the prerequisite to enter the kingdom of God.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5KJV)
Jesus further explains “being born again” as being born of the Spirit. Unless a man accept (through faith) the Spirit that dwells in him he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6KJV)
Jesus reveals that there are two states of being.
Below Paul is paraphrasing (John 3:6)
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. (Romans 8:5KJV)
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8KJV)
Jesus reveals that this new state of being defies common understanding.
Below Paul is paraphrasing (John 3:8)
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14KJV)
The second step is accepting His word.
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23KJV)
The sayings of Jesus Christ is the infallible word of God and obedience to His words is obedience to the Father’s will.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:39-40KJV)
This is our confidence that all those who keep the sayings of the Son are those who have been called by the Father.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. (John 6:65KJV)
The indoctrinated misjudge the confidence of those who have accepted Christ as a lack of humility because they do not know the source of that confidence.
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. (Hebrews 10:35KJV)
The problem is their doctrine is more powerful than the scripture itself and consequently the word of God is hidden from them.
You want me to explain “the knowledge of the Holy Spirit.”
But the knowledge of the Holy Ghost is received only by revelation from the Father.
Example of a revelation:
Jesus asked his disciples, “Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.” (Matthew 16:13-14KJV)
Then He asked His disciples who do you say I am.
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:15-16KJV)
This is the revelation.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 16:17KJV).
No man could have explain this to Peter.
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Ray
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10/27/2011 16:57 |
"defies common understanding"
Yes, it does, the "ruwach - the breath of heaven," So I see your use in posts of "knowledge, understanding, and realization" are not only about human qualities. I think that has tripped me up in the past reading your posts.
Cultural/language barriers happen more often then I was aware until recently. We have Chinese and Arabic students living with us now and I'm often amazed at how much preconceived cultural standards block real relationship. Recently, a Muslim woman was talking about how much she loved soccer. I asked her if she ever played the game and you would have thought I spit on her. "It is not permitted," she replied. Maybe we have some of that here thus causing my next observation.
I don't remember you ever encouraging anyone here. Your posts always seem to be about your authority and the error of others. The immediate example, I asked you about your relationship to the Holy Spirit and your first response was about how other people fail in their desire for drama. This kind of response comes off as religious pride. It's just something to consider if you care about people and really want them to "listen."
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Marcie in MO
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10/27/2011 20:05 |
Revelation 5
6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
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TRWord
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10/28/2011 04:42 |
Many Christians have been convinced that they must surrender their God given ability to reason because God demands it.
This is absolutely false.
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (Isaiah 1:18KJV)
Having surrendered their ability to reason many Christians are now unable to distinguish between worldly knowledge and the knowledge of God resulting in the total misunderstanding of humility and of verses like the one below.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. (1 Corinthians 1:19KJV)
The wisdom of the wise that Paul is speaking about, is worldly knowledge that elevates man’s ego above the knowledge God.
Our relationship with our Father does not require that we give up our God given intelligence. It requires that we trust His word. We who are in Christ must first know what we believe and then be resolute and unwavering in it.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. (John 10:27-30KJV)
We who are in Christ believe that the Father and the Son are One, and we also believe in the infallibility of His word.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. (John 8:51KJV)
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