Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion

Replies: (page 1 2)

	Calico	01/31/2012 22:09
Heya, brother, I spent some time reading your thoughts a little more thoroughly, and now it is too late to start writing anything LOL. I will say this, with very much love, Andre: it is possible that you've taken a defensive posturing in which might be pressing on the poem a little too hard for some of the outcomes you're presenting (just some of them, and certainly not all of them - in fact we have much agreement). Of course, this is a dialog, and so it is reasonable to start things in this way, for now. Just quickly now, then: I as I had said in our chat the other night; and in the previous thread on which you, Ray, and I seemed to begin the discussion with; I am not convinced in a complete way that Jefferson Bethke's has intended poem/video as something used to bash "religion" when the conception of the word is positioned as ameliorative. What he seems to be doing is speaking from conceiving of the word as pejorative. Perhaps this might make all the difference in our viewing and hearing of the video...? Sleeping now, so I will stop typizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Tom
	Calico	01/31/2012 22:12
oops... let it read "a defensive posturing in which you might be pressing on the poem," please... ...and minus the "'s" on the end of Jefferson Bethke. No edit button. :-/
	onelovedbyjesus	02/02/2012 10:43
I for the most part agree with "Why I hate religion, but love Jesus". but only because i think the authors definition of religion is what the majority of people veiw it as. before looking up the definition religion to me reminded me of a set of rules and rituals that you must follow to be a part of the certain religion. personally i have viewed christianity to be more of a relationship with God than anything else. i do also believe that there are many occasions where people get caught up in "religion" and think self righteously and things of such. when in reality the message of Jesus and the Bible was one of love, and i believe thats what this poem/ rap was trying to convey.
	Catholica	02/02/2012 12:44
Tom, religion is hard to define concisely, but if I were pressed I think this is how I would define it: Religion is a set of beliefs and practices that guide and enliven the lives of those who adhere to them. Perhaps I am defensive to this poem because, frankly, it is offensive to me, and also because I believe that it is destructive to Christians. Willingly or not, it paints a one-sided destructive, negative picture of religion in general that can and will foster feelings of animosity, even unjust ones, against religion in general, separating people from what I believe is something that Jesus did actually intend for His people to have, something that I believe is actually beneficial, and I would say, extremely important, for their ultimate salvation. So of course I am defensive about this poem because it plays into the radically individualistic culture that our country encourages and against the communal culture that our Lord insisted upon. Ok, now that all my cards are on the table, shall I continue? ;-)
	wesrman	02/02/2012 14:31
Hes speaking against Religion, not Faith. And from what i read from you Andre, when you say Religion, you mean faith. So i think there is a misunderstanding here.
	Catholica	02/02/2012 14:55
Hi wes, I'm truly interested, what do other people mean when they say religion? Perhaps this man is speaking against something that is not actually religion. But clearly, words mean something. Maybe we have lost the meaning of what religion actually is.
	Ray	02/02/2012 16:55
"Maybe we have lost the meaning of what religion actually is." It isn't wrong for words to change in common usage. Happens all the time. Bruxy explains this particular divide quite well, I think: http://media.themeetinghouse.ca/podcast/audio/2012-01-15-792-sermon.mp3 http://media.themeetinghouse.ca/podcast/audio/2012-01-22-793-sermon.mp3 The second is the talk is where Tom encourages us to watch the video. The reason is Bruxy starts out in formal liturgical dress and changes clothes to less formal wear to demonstrate acceptance of other people's hearts. 1 Corinthians 9:22 Some people use the word in a different way from you. You have a kind view of it per your "enliven the lives of those who adhere" addition. That says it all and we see your heart. We listen to your heart to understand, not just your words. Bruxy: "move beyond the words to see the Word. We cling to the words, but acknowledge the words are never enough. They are stepping stones to get to the Person." We can do that since we know THE Word, the Lamb of God. To do otherwise is discouraged: 2 Timothy 2:14 You are highly invested in this particular usage of the word. You say that it must enliven to be actual. The rapper was saying exactly that in my opinion. He has walked in a "religious" way and smelled death, and both are actually true experiences because of the position we find Jesus in both behaviors. Acts 17:22 "Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious." It is interesting that Paul used that as an entry point to share the good news. I suspect it was a left handed compliment, but the Athenians only suspected the "unknown god." The question is, are our traditions primary or not? The rapper could, in time, become very religious about his demand for people to not be religious. But out of the gate, I think his heart is true. There is only ONE thing that is "extremely important, for their ultimate salvation."
	GodB4Me	03/03/2012 03:51
The problem that I see with "religion" from my perspective is: 1. There is no way that it can remove itself from the politics of being persuaded by "who" puts money in the collection, giving the sense the more you give the more holy you are.... 2. By Jesus' coming we can have a relationship with HIM, we don't need someone to go to Jesus for us, to confess our sins to, to intercede on my behalf, I can do it myself without any mans help... 3. Religions use brainwashing technics to influence the minds of their young to believe that "theirs" is the "chosen" church, and all others are mediocre. 4. Religions usually (from my observations) don't adhere to the Bible, they throw in whats fashionable for the day, i.e.... just Friday's reading told how the candle had to stay lit, day and night tended and this must go from generation to generation..... when I was a child I know there was a candle at the front of my home town church, that was tended and as far as I knew never allowed to go out, now with liability problems created by insurance companies, they use electronic fake candles, both at the alter and in the votives. So much for leaning on the God of our understanding..... no faith to let things play out, call the bluff of man and see what happens. Now someone is gonna say, yes but that was in the Old Testament, but they pick and choose which "rituals" they will keep and which ones they will throw out... I could go on.... the "AIDS" scare of the early 90's caused the "parishioners" to be allowed to miraculously be allowed to touch the host which was once thought of only the "anointed" "priest" were allowed to touch, to the point of if it was accidentally dropped on the floor, ONLY he could bend down to pick it up. For a MAN to have a "divine revelation" to after hundreds of years, of racism against blacks, thinking that God turned Cain black when he killed Abel, to all of a sudden allow them to the priesthood, to find out the church was being sued because they would allow black children in their boy scouts. Yes, I am no longer under the thumb of any religion, where a MAN tells me what rules to follow, it is between MY God and ME.... I am learning to adhere to the Bible and only the Bible and I have the Daily Audio Bible to thank for that. Respectfully and heartfully responding to this thread. Lisa
	GodB4Me	03/03/2012 03:59
Religion is for people who fear hell, spirituality is for people who have been there...
	Dustin Boos	03/09/2012 12:41
Im neither sticking up for this guy or gonna cut him down however he has done several interviews (you can google them i like the one on christianpost.com) explaining what he meant versus what the video portrayed he intended on getting a couple hundred people at most to view this until it went crazy and millions seen it he admits to using terms to loosely and should have given it more thought his views and parts are somewhat on track he has a good heart and is really try his best to glorify God in the highest he just didnt think it all the way through...that said I was like many others in almost becoming furious at his accusations however I dug a little deeper and was pleased to find out that his intentions where right on but his delivery was off!

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