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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Is Mark 13 false prophecy?
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the apostles straightforward ask Jesus when "these great buildings...will be completely demolished"(Mark 13:2).
("Tell us, when will all this happen? What sign will show us that these things are about to be fulfilled?"(Mark 13:4))
Jesus responds with a discourse: "Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in many parts of the world, as well as famines. But this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come."(Mark 13:8).
"When these things begin to happen, watch out! You will be handed over to the local councils and beaten in the synagogues. You will stand trial before governors and kings because you are my followers. But this will be your opportunity to tell them about me. For the Good News must first be preached to all nations."(Mark 13:9 - 11)
it goes on to say "The day is coming when you will see the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing where he should not be. Then those in Judea must flee to the hills."(Mark 13:13 - 14)
However, my understanding of history leads me to suspect that, if indeed Jesus is talking about what must take place BEFORE the destruction of the temple, then the prophecies were in error. There were not many, if any, earthquakes in the mediterrenean world (and the words "all the earth" seem to imply the lands the bible characters know of, just as well as others). In addition, during the time of Christ the Roman Empire was in a state of Pax Romana (Peace of Rome), during which no wars were fought of any magnitude, except for the invasions of a few petty powers such as Germany and Britain.
Famines were also in short supply, and I do not recall any famines of note during these times.
so, is there something I am missing in the scriptures of Mark 13?
thanks,
James "Bibleman"
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Bibleman 07/09/2012 04:30 |
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Davidwayne Lackey
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07/09/2012 23:25 |
I believe Jesus was talking about both the beginning of the worse times for the Jews in attendance there at the time and the end time just before the tribulation period. The first was fulfilled around 70 AD with the fall of the second temple. Notice Jesus said there would be many earthquakes and famines in many parts of the World. He was not talking specifically about the Middle East except for the Temple and the buildings around it. The sacrilegious object is an obvious allusion to the same thing written about it in Revelation. Notice Jesus called the object "He" and not it. So Jesus must have been talking about the end of this age at the tribulation period. It would be a mistake to lump all of any one prophesy into a single time period. The 13th chapter of Mark is consistent with most Biblical prophesies in that the passages are not necessarily Time specific but point specific.
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Bibleman
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07/12/2012 07:02 |
I found evidence of earthquakes and certain wars during the interval between the destruction of Jesus' body and the destruction of the Temple. Provided we move by the language of the other apocalyptic scriptures, it is possible to suggest that a lot of the language mentioned within the passage is hyperbole which is used in the other apocalyptic scriptures. for example, the 'coming on the clouds with great glory' could fit with the advancing of the Roman Armies against Jerusalem. In this case, Jesus came to destroy the last remnants of the old system. And to this day, there is no Temple in Jerusalem.
and, Davidwayne, as you probably know, a lot of scholars speak of 'near and far fulfillment' in prophecy. So, if this fulfills the near end of prophecy, then it leaves open the far end of prophecy - for example, the final apocalypse.
(on a minor point, I'm not sure what to call the 'abomination that causes desolation' - maybe it was referring to Jesus, since he defiled the old way of worship with his death and with the coming destruction of the Temple? I dunno.)
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Davidwayne Lackey
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07/12/2012 20:40 |
I don't think the abomination that causes desolation could ever refer to Jesus. I get your reasoning and on the face of it sounds plausible. But There is better evidence that during the second Temple period it was the Pagan alters inside of the Temple itself when Rome destroyed the Temple that was the abomination of desolation.
The term itself is completely antithetical to all Jesus stood for. It simply would not be a moniker that He would wear. To worship an abomination in Scripture causes desolation simply by taking the hearts and minds of the adherents away from God and His ways to the evil ways of the false gods. That is it takes the good ways of God and the benefits of living in them such as peace, long life and prosperity and replaces those things with evil intent like, lust, licentiousness, evil intent and strife. Like taking the Cross and replacing it with a swastika. I think the same would hold true to the 3rd Temple yet to be built in Revelation.
Another way to look at it would be in our own lives today. When ever we fall away from God for ever how long and make our own wants our God so to speak. It is inevitable that sooner or later as the case may be that we become desolate in heart and mind and wind up feeling empty inside. We exist in a spiritual sense in desolation.
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Bibleman
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07/13/2012 20:07 |
amen to that! He is the power source.
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Russ
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09/04/2012 20:34 |
Many prophecies commonly telescope the vision of events so they cover near and far events in one series of prophecies. Very common in Judeao-Christian prophetic words. So we can do the prophecy injustice if we try to be too narrow or only future in what the words cover. The book of Revelation and such is a good example, as are things like Daniel and Ezekiel for example. Once I understood this telescoping of events in such prophecies they make alot more sense to me.
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