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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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TRWord
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09/04/2012 16:38 |
Catholica
Nothing that you have added here says that Jesus suffering and His shed blood was for the forgiveness of sin.
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John T
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09/06/2012 12:30 |
TRWord, sounds like you're reading one verse without the context - prooftexting. You've ignored all the other verses we've given you. Yes, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven - the rest of the Bible explains how - through the blood of Jesus. Believing that Jesus saved us is not blasphemy, nor is belief that he defeated evil blasphemy. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is attributing evil to God and good to Satan, completely mixing things up and grieving the spirit.
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Ted C
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09/08/2012 16:54 |
TRWord, I want to ask you a third time: Do you interact with ascended beings, and if so what is your theology regarding them? Are they guides? Are they Divine? Are we Divine?
The reason I keep coming back to this is because if you do commune with spiritual beings, and those beings do not want to be exposed or discussed, you have to question if you are really communing with good.
Andre said in a earlier post in this thread, "Evil is real, and we mustn't reject it's existence lest we become vulnerable to it's real actions upon our souls." That's a profound statement. The men who wrote the Bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit were very forthcoming about the nature of their belief, and even their interactions with spiritual beings.
Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."
Luke 8:17 "For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light."
Matthew 5:15 "nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house."
Acts 27:23 "For this very night an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I serve stood before me"
Daniel 10:12-14 (The Message) "‘Relax, Daniel,’ he continued, ‘don’t be afraid. From the moment you decided to humble yourself to receive understanding, your prayer was heard, and I set out to come to you. But I was waylaid by the angel-prince of the kingdom of Persia and was delayed for a good three weeks. But then Michael, one of the chief angel-princes, intervened to help me."
Revelation 12:7-9 (The Message) "War broke out in Heaven. Michael and his Angels fought the Dragon. The Dragon and his Angels fought back, but were no match for Michael. They were cleared out of Heaven, not a sign of them left. The great Dragon—ancient Serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, the one who led the whole earth astray—thrown out, and all his Angels thrown out with him, thrown down to earth."
So the Bible talks clearly about angels and demons. Every time an Angel appears in Scripture it is doing only one of three things: 1) Declaring the word of God, 2) strengthening a believer, or 3) fighting evil. And the angels never draw attention to themselves or remain as familiars. If an angel is doing something apart from one of those three things, or if it remains and claims to be a guide, it is not from God in the Scriptures. Rather Scripture indicates it is from the enemy of our souls and is evil.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12 "When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you"
2 Corinthians 11:3,4,12-15 "But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully....But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds."
These are some profound things to think about.
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Davidwayne Lackey
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09/08/2012 21:22 |
TRW
To be free from the belief in good and evil is not the Gospel. That is not what Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross for. Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross to free us from fear of sin and death by His finished work on the cross. To set the captives free. This is the Gospel.
How could there be sin and death if there was no good and evil. Without evil there is no reason for death. If there were no good there is no reason for life. There would be nothing but senseless existence. No reason for free will to choose. No reason for Jesus to willingly allow Himself to be tortured to death on the cross.
To sacrifice Himself to prove there is no good or evil and to do away with that belief? Jesus would have had to sacrifice Himself for no good reason at all. There is nothing in the passages you quoted to justify this reasoning. All the passages you quoted were way out of context and only a couple of them had anything to do directly with The Gospel.
As Ted just quoted above in 2 Corinthians about preaching a different Gospel, I believe you are doing just that. You have made, in your assertions, the blood of Jesus of no account.
Ted asked you a very good question, one that I am wondering about too:
TRWord, I want to ask you a third time: Do you interact with ascended beings, and if so what is your theology regarding them? Are they guides? Are they Divine? Are we Divine?
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TRWord
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09/10/2012 08:00 |
SCOTT CARPENTER began this thread with the question:
PREDESTINED TO BE SAVED OR DOOMED? ROMANS (9:1-24 JUL 25 DAB READING)
It has been a very lively discussion and at this stage I’ll like to share our study of the Gospel because I believe it answers the original question.
http://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D8193870_69722297_98709
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Ted C
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09/12/2012 01:14 |
Interesting thesis. In the first paragraph it makes a false comparison, though. The Bible never says that Eve ate an apple. But Jesus does say, "for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." (Matthew 26:28) Jesus' sacrifice was, "not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption." (Hebrews 9:12). And so He is, "the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world." (Revelation 13:8). His Blood covers the sins of all mankind from the very beginning the very end, if we, "continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard." (Colossians 1:23). This is the Gospel of which Paul says just three verses earlier, "For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross." Still, some will be reconciled to eternal condemnation if they reject the sacrifice of Christ, for, “at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth." (Philippians 2:10) And, "How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.' And again, 'The Lord will judge His people.' It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:29-31) His Blood was not like the blood of bulls and goats, but rather, "we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us." (Hebrews 10:20) The gift freely given in Romans 8 is based upon our belief and confession that Jesus has been delivered up for us as a sin offering. "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin." (Romans 8:3) It is only after this that Paul says later in the same chapter, "He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?" (Romans 8:32) And Paul says still later in the same book, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." As for those who came before Christ's sacrifice or those who have never had a chance to hear, the writer of Hebrews calls them, "great a cloud of witnesses." (Hebrews 12:1) And so David can say of God, "You are justified when You speak and blameless when You judge." (Psalm 51:4)
Now, back to the question that you seem to be ducking.
Do you interact with ascended beings, and if so what is your theology regarding them? Are they guides? Are they Divine? Are we Divine?
If you have to hide your real beliefs - if you have to dishonestly try to redirect the conversation to avoid answering in truth - then you would need to consider that in doing so you would be a partner with the one of whom Jesus said, "Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44) And you would need to consider that any spirits you were communing with wouldn't be from the Father but would be fallen angels, lying and deceiving in order to capture your soul to seal you for eternal separation along with them.
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Catholica
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09/12/2012 20:56 |
TRWord, what do you make of the following verse, especially paying attention to verses 9-12 (capitalized for pertinence)?
1 Kings 3
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5 In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream at night. God said: Whatever you ask I shall give you.
6 Solomon answered: “You have shown great kindness to your servant, David my father, because he walked before you with fidelity, justice, and an upright heart; and you have continued this great kindness toward him today, giving him a son to sit upon his throne.
7 Now, LORD, my God, you have made me, your servant, king to succeed David my father; but I am a mere youth, not knowing at all how to act—
8 I, your servant, among the people you have chosen, a people so vast that it cannot be numbered or counted.
9 Give your servant, therefore, a listening heart to judge your people and TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL. For who is able to give judgment for this vast people of yours?”
10 THE LORD WAS PLEASED BY SOLOMON'S REQUEST.
11 So God said to him: Because you asked for this—you did not ask for a long life for yourself, nor for riches, nor for the life of your enemies—but YOU ASKED FOR DISCERNMENT TO KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT —
12 I NOW DO AS YOU REQUEST. I give you a heart so wise and discerning that there has never been anyone like you until now, nor after you will there be anyone to equal you.
13 In addition, I give you what you have not asked for: I give you such riches and glory that among kings there will be no one like you all your days.
14 And if you walk in my ways, keeping my statutes and commandments, as David your father did, I will give you a long life.
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So God offers to grant to Solomon anything he asks for. Solomon asks SPECIFICALLY for the ability to distinguish between good and evil, which you have claimed is the original sin, the absolute wrong thing to do (according to what you would like us to believe), and yet the scriptures are explicit that God is *PLEASED* by this request, and *grants* it to him.
Why would a good God, in accordance with that which you believe, be pleased with such a request and grant it? Wouldn't that be the most evil thing that God could have done, in your view?
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TRWord
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09/13/2012 12:38 |
Catholica
You said: “(according to what you would like us to believe)”
I’m not trying to make you believe anything. I’m exposing the fact that you stubbornly refuse to accept what is written. No matter what version of the Bible you are reading what is written in Genesis 2:17 is irrefutable.
Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
The fact is God warned Adam against the knowledge of good and evil and there is no way around that. You can change what is written to an apple or a forbidden fruit or what ever but the consequence is the confusion you now find yourself in.
Now you see a conflict between God granting Solomon the ability to distinguish between good and evil and the fact that Adam’s transgression of believing in good and evil is what brought evil into the world in the first place.
Gen. 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
God said that everything He made was very good. I guess you don’t accept that either.
No man can believe in an “ALMIGHTY GOD” and in good and evil at the same time it’s one or the other. Believing in good and evil is denying that God is the ALMIGHTY and this is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
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TRWord
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09/13/2012 12:45 |
Ted you have kept asking:
“TRWord, I want to ask you a third time: Do you interact with ascended beings, and if so what is your theology regarding them? Are they guides? Are they Divine? Are we Divine?
The reason I keep coming back to this is because if you do commune with spiritual beings, and those beings do not want to be exposed or discussed, you have to question if you are really communing with good.”
And I have ignored the question because I find it ridiculous but since you obviously will not stop.
Here is my answer. NO!
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Catholica
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09/13/2012 14:01 |
TRWord,
I don't want to jump to any conclusions as to why you avoided addressing Solomon's dream. As you say, you have to take all scripture into account. In the framework of your gospel, how do you make sense with 1 Kings 3:5-14 that I quoted above?
Similarly, it is altogether simple to believe that there is evil at the same time to believe that everything that God created is good. I do, and that is what Paul proclaims in his first letter to Timothy. Watch as Paul goes from talking about demons in verse 1 to stating that everything God created being good in verse 4:
1 Timothy 4
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1 Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will turn away from the faith by paying attention to DECEITFUL SPIRITS and DEMONIC INSTRUCTIONS
2 through the hypocrisy of liars with branded consciences.
3 They forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
4 FOR EVERYTHING CREATED BY GOD IS GOOD, and nothing is to be rejected when received with thanksgiving,
5 for it is made holy by the invocation of God in prayer.
6 If you will give these instructions to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound teaching you have followed.
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The Spirit "explicitly" acknowledges the existence of "deceitful spirits". Created by God? Yes or no? Is this "Spirit" that Paul is referring to /itself/ a "deceitful spirit" by "explicitly" warning against "deceitful spirits"? Do you see how from that verse alone it absolutely has to be true that "deceitful spirits" exist?
And yet Paul then acknowledges that everything created by God is good. So let's follow that logic: these "deceitful spirits" were either created by something that is not God, or the "deceitful spirits" were created by God, and were once good but are now evil. I think we agree that there is no creator but God. So how did something created by God turn into a "deceitful spirit", something that is evil?
The simple answer is that this thing created good by God chose to reject God. This good thing turned to evil and did evil acts against God. Yet we also know from the passage that this thing that is now evil still exists, or Paul wouldn't be talking about it.
Paul is adjuring us to /not pay attention/ to these "deceitful spirits", not deny their existence. Paul did not deny their existence. Eve could not deny the existence of a "deceitful spirit" in retrospect regarding the encounter that happened to her before she ate the fruit.
I know that your belief system has told you that the unforgivable sin of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is believing in good and evil. But that is not "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit". The Holy Spirit would never have explicitly told people to not pay attention to deceitful spirits if none existed. TRWord, *** You have fallen into a lie that has entrapped you. *** There are good explanations for all of what you have read in the scriptures, that all make sense together and still affirm that God is almighty. Don't be afraid to listen to reason... it is our reason and our ability to love (more than emotionally) that separate us from the animals, that make us in the image and likeness of the living God.
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