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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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John T
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09/14/2012 09:46 |
Jesus, the son of God and one of the Holy God (3 in 1) states himself that there is evil. See Luke 10 and Jesus description of Satan falling from heaven. TRWord, you are being deceived, whether by the ruler of this world or by flesh and pride I do not know, but you are clearly in error.
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TRWord
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09/14/2012 16:20 |
Catholica
How did I avoid Solomon’s dream?
Didn’t Solomon request of God the ability to distinguish between good and evil and didn’t God grant him his wish? I don’t think you read what is written carefully enough.
I said:
“The fact is God warned Adam against the knowledge of good and evil and there is no way around that. You can change what is written to an apple or a forbidden fruit or what ever but the consequence is the confusion you now find yourself in.
Now you see a conflict between God granting Solomon the ability to distinguish between good and evil and the fact that Adam’s transgression of believing in good and evil is what brought evil into the world in the first place.”
Faith is come but you have not yet accepted it. You are still using your human understanding.
2 Cor. 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
We the children of faith are called upon to accept God’s word not because it make sense to our human mind or because it matches up with what we see in the earth. Faith requires that we accept what we do not yet understand, and be confident that the understanding would be revealed to us.
What is Paul saying here in this letter to Timothy.
1 Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Tim. 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Tim. 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Tim. 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Tim. 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1 Tim. 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
Paul is speaking here of seducing spirits and the doctrine of devils. He is talking about doctrine concocted by my evil men that shall seduce those that have strayed from the faith.
These verses actually confirm what I’ve been saying to you. As long a man holds firmly to the word of God he can never be led astray.
For example you believe that a person can believe in good and evil and an ALMIGHTY GOD too. That of course is impossible.
Every man who believes in good and evil believes in a power other than God.
Until a man through faith accept God as the only power then He is not the ALMIGHTY.
This the Revelation here:
Rev. 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
The Lord God omnipotent cannot reign in a man’s soul until he obeys Genesis 2:17.
Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
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Davidwayne Lackey
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09/14/2012 22:44 |
TRW,
How can there be a tree of the knowledge of good and evil if there was no good and evil to have knowledge of?!?
God did not warn against the knowledge of good and evil. God warned against eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. You yourself keep misinterpreting Gen 2:17 and insist everybody else is. Your reasoning is so convoluted.
You said,
For example you believe that a person can believe in good and evil and an ALMIGHTY GOD too. That of course is impossible.
Every man who believes in good and evil believes in a power other than God.
Until a man through faith accept God as the only power then He is not the ALMIGHTY.
Again you don't understand something as simple as differing types and degrees of power spoken about throughout Scripture. Nobody here has said that God is not the ultimate power but there are other powers that God has made and given.
To say that there are no other powers in Heaven or Earth is to say there is no such thing as Angels or Human beings. We all have a power given by God to each of us. These powers are spoken about throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Power given by God to do such miraculous things as to shut up the heavens so it would not rain, to call down lightening, to heal, or to raise the dead like Paul did. With all of the miracles that Jesus performed did He not say to His disciples that they would do greater things than those? So why is it you cannot understand that Satan could have powers too. Powers God has put a limit on but God Himself has no limit. So none of us has put a limit on God and blasphemed Him. I have the power to play the Piano and Guitar and the power of speech, does that mean I don't exist?
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Ted C
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09/15/2012 01:00 |
TRWord,
It wasn't the tree of the belief of good and evil. In the original Hebrew it was the tree of the "da'ath" (Strongs H1847) of good and evil.
Genesis 2:9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the "da'ath" of good and evil.
Genesis 2:17 but from the tree of the "da'ath" of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.
The Hebrew word "da'ath" does not mean belief. It means knowledge.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1847&t=nasb
da'ath: knowledge, perception, skill, discernment, understanding, wisdom
Da'ath is a form of the primary Hebrew word for knowledge, "yada" (Strongs H3045)
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3045&t=NASB
yada: to know, to learn, to perceive and see, to find out by experience
If the words da'ath and yada meant belief, then we would have to change the meaning of the following verses as well:
Genesis 4:1 "Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, 'I have gotten a manchild with the help of the Lord.'"
Would have to become
"Now the man believed in his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, 'I have gotten a manchild with the help of the Lord.'"
Genesis 4:9a "Then the Lord said to Cain, 'Where is Abel your brother?' And he said, I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?'"
Would have to become
"Then the Lord said to Cain, 'Where is Abel your brother?' And he said, I do not believe. Am I my brother’s keeper?'"
Genesis 19:4,5 "Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.'”
Would have to become
"Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may believe in them.'”
Genesis 39:5,6 "It came about that from the time he made him overseer in his house and over all that he owned, the Lord blessed the Egyptian’s house on account of Joseph; thus the Lord’s blessing was upon all that he owned, in the house and in the field. So he left everything he owned in Joseph’s charge; and with him there he did not concern himself with anything except the food which he ate."
Would have to become
"It came about that from the time he made him overseer in his house and over all that he owned, the Lord blessed the Egyptian’s house on account of Joseph; thus the Lord’s blessing was upon all that he owned, in the house and in the field. So he left everything he owned in Joseph’s charge; and with him there he did not believe in anything except the food which he ate."
It goes on and on like this for the uses of the words "da'ath" and "yada" everywhere they appear in Scripture.
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John T
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09/15/2012 19:20 |
Very interesting find Ted! It's always need to see some of the root words and how it all fits together.
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TRWord
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09/16/2012 05:08 |
Davidwayne
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is best understood if we look at it through it’s alternative the tree of life. We can look at the two trees as a fork in the road where Adam could have gone right or left.
Man in the Garden of Eden is man in paradise or man “at one with God.”
Being at one with the Spirit is the path to life; the opportunity to partake of the tree of life.
Knowing good and evil separated us from God; the scripture says “we are as gods.”
Gen. 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
We are as gods because we see ourselves as beings separate and apart from God. When we are no longer one with God or in the paradise of God we lose the opportunity to partake of the tree of life.
Adam transgression separated us from God.
It drove us out of the garden and denied us the opportunity to partake of the tree of life.
Gen. 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Knowing the Truth of the oneness of God as revealed by Jesus Christ reconciles us to the Spirit. We no longer see ourselves as separate and apart from God and the opportunity to partake of the tree of life is regained.
This is what He is trying to tell us here?
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He’s trying to tell us that the Father, Him and us are all one through the Holy Spirit. This is what we should mean when we say in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
Jesus came to undo what Adam did but until we understand what Adam did we cannot understand what Jesus came to undo.
The Holy Spirit is the TRUTH of the oneness of God so seeing ourselves as separate and apart from God is Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
Matt. 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
The revelation here is: “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Whosoever believe His message of the oneness of God shall again have the opportunity to partake of the tree of life.
Rev. 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
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Ted C
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09/16/2012 20:00 |
But TRWord, the one who said, "you will be like God," was the serpent, the devil. And Jesus said that everything the devil says is a lie.
John 8:44 (Jesus speaking to those seeking to kill Him) "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
The book of Revelation is the Revelation from Jesus.
Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,"
Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."
So Jesus says the serpent of old is the devil. And Jesus says there is no truth in him.
Therefore the statement that if you commit an act of sin, "you will be like God," is not true.
In fact sin means going against the nature of God. Look at what God says happens when we commit an act of sin.
Genesis 2:17 "for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die"
That's a whole lot different from becoming like God.
Sin is antithetical go God's nature.
Leviticus 11:44 "For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy"
Malachi 3:6 "For I, the Lord, do not change"
We are made in God's image.
Genesis 1:27 "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
Because sin is the destruction of God's image, sin destroys us.
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
This is why Jesus had to shed His blood and die on the cross for our sins in our place. He paid the penalty of death that was on our heads and has made a way to salvation by His Blood.
Isaiah 53:5,6 "But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him."
Matt 20:28 "the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many"
Romans 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation"
If what you are asserting was correct and the devil was telling the truth, then a man could become like God by sinning. But all of Scripture teaches the opposite of this. And Scripture itself says the devil was lying.
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Davidwayne Lackey
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09/16/2012 21:55 |
TRW, I was actually going to post pretty much the same thing Ted has just posted. Ted also did a good job explaining the Gospel. Gospel means good news and it is what Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross for. The free gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord. Freedom from the fear of death caused by sin purchased for us by the blood of Jesus.
One can not simply explain the tree of the knowledge of good and evil by looking at the tree of life except to say that God planted both of those trees with a purpose. The obvious purpose that one tree leads to spiritual death and the other to eternal life. It had nothing to do with the belief in those two trees but the actual existence of those trees and what they represented. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil represented evil sin and death and the tree of life represented eternal life and good. The fact that they were both there and accessible to Adam and Eve was necessitated by free will. Without choice there is no free will to choose. These things had nothing to do with the oneness of God.
You wrote:
Knowing the Truth of the oneness of God as revealed by Jesus Christ reconciles us to the Spirit. We no longer see ourselves as separate and apart from God and the opportunity to partake of the tree of life is regained.
This is what He is trying to tell us here?
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He’s trying to tell us that the Father, Him and us are all one through the Holy Spirit. This is what we should mean when we say in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
Jesus came to undo what Adam did but until we understand what Adam did we cannot understand what Jesus came to undo.
The Holy Spirit is the TRUTH of the oneness of God so seeing ourselves as separate and apart from God is Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
This statement by you is a whole different ball of wax. It will require more time to respond to than I have today but I will respond when I have time. But I do have a question first so I can better understand what you are getting at here. If I understand you correctly you are saying if we are not already one in God the same way as Jesus is then we blaspheme The Holy Spirit. Just as a knee jerk reaction I would categorically reject that notion. AS I understand it we will not see the tree of life again till we get to Heaven after the resurrection. and it would not be possible to become one with God before that time. We become one in Spirit and purpose now when we do as The Holy Spirit prompts us but we are not capable of doing this on our own and we certainly do not have the capacity to be anything other than Human.
Could you expand on your comment of oneness since I'm not fully sure of your meaning ?
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TRWord
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09/16/2012 22:28 |
Ted
You are so at war with the truth that you even lie on the devil. Your last post I thought that there was some hope for you because it seemed that you had finally come to the realization that in (Genesis 2:17) God warned Adam against the knowledge of good and evil. In previous discussions you were stuck with a forbidden fruit.
So here it time for you to confront what’s written but you again spin off now saying:
“But TRWord, the one who said, "you will be like God," was the serpent, the devil. And Jesus said that everything the devil says is a lie.”
The scripture never said any such thing. You should read more carefully.
Gen. 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
I hope you can see the difference between “ye shall be as gods” and "you will be like God."
You also said:
“Therefore the statement that if you commit an act of sin, "you will be like God," is not true.”
If you read what I said and concluded that I was saying if you commit an act of sin, "you will be like God," all I can say is that is amazing.
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TRWord
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09/16/2012 22:50 |
Davidwayne
When you are able to recieve what Jesus is saying here:
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Then you will come to an understanding of the oneness of God.
Paul told you what you will need; not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God.
1 Cor. 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Without this spirit you will not be able to receive what is said here.
1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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