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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Contemporary Christians
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Christians today bear no resemblance to the disciples in the book of Acts, but getting them to wonder why is impossible.
Jesus promised His disciples.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
As promised His disciples performed many great works.
example: The healing of the lame man.
Acts 3:5 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Acts 3:6 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
Acts 3:7 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
For today’s Christians it’s just about having their sins forgiven and not burning in hell.
And whosoever tries to tell them that they believe “what their doctrine says of Him,” instead of believing Him, is deemed a heretic.
It brings to mind what Mark Twain said:
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.__Mark Twain
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TRWord 12/31/2012 09:08 |
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Ted C
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01/01/2013 01:34 |
TRWord, what Scriptures do you believe teach that all which is in existence IS the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. To phrase it differenlty, how does the Bible teach that everything literally is God?
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TRWord
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01/01/2013 14:32 |
Ted
Religious persons speak of the Holy Ghost all the time but the question is, do they know what they are talking about.
Jesus promised those that believe:
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
When we receive “THE TRUTH” we receive the Holy Ghost.
And He said:
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
This is the revelation of “the Oneness of God.”
The correct understanding of the atonement : At-one-ment __ the unity of all people with God and one another.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
You’ll also find it where Paul is speaking to the worshipers on Mars’hill. (Acts 17:23-28) Realizing that they didn’t know God.
He said:
Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Pay attention to what He is saying in the 28th verse. I miss being able to underline in this forum.
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Ted C
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01/02/2013 13:08 |
But what about Scriptures that indicate God is separate from His creation?
Isaiah 40:18-22a (NASB) "To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare with Him? As for the idol, a craftsman casts it, a goldsmith plates it with gold, and a silversmith fashions chains of silver. He who is too impoverished for such an offering selects a tree that does not rot; He seeks out for himself a skillful craftsman to prepare an idol that will not totter. Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been declared to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is He who sits above the circle of the earth..."
Isaiah 59:2 (NASB) "But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear."
Numbers 23:19a (NASB) "God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent..."
Acts 17:24 (NASB) "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands."
1 Kings 19:11,12 (NASB) "...And behold, the Lord was passing by! And a great and strong wind was rending the mountains and breaking in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire..."
1 John 3:4,5 (NASB) "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin."
Or take these two Scriptures together.
Malachi 3:6a (NASB) "For I, the Lord, do not change..."
Revelation 21:1a (NASB) "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away..."
Or these two Scriptures.
James 1:13b (NASB) "for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone."
James 1:14 (NASB) "But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust."
A couple more.
John 4:24a (NASB) "God is spirit..."
Romans 7:14b (NIV) "...but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin."
And finally.
Genesis 21:33b (NIV) "...he called upon the name of the Lord, the Eternal God."
Romans 7:24b through 8:4 (NIV) "Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit."
All of these speak of God's eternal qualities and how He is set apart from His creation.
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TRWord
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01/02/2013 21:18 |
Ted
I know you beliefs:
You believe in “The separate nature of God from His creation.” So of course you’ll interpret scripture according to what you believe.
The problem is, I find you beliefs contradictory. For example you said before, you believe that Jesus Christ is 100% man and 100% God.
Well if you believe that God is separate from His creation then Jesus can never be 100% man because man is separate from God according to your beliefs.
Also if you believe that Jesus is 100% God why don’t you believe what He have said. Isn’t that equivalent to not believing God.
Jesus said:
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
and
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Yet you continue to believe that God is separate from His creation. Which is it, your belief or what God has said through Christ.
Jesus said:
Matt. 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
and
John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
How do you reconcile these statements with your belief that He died for the forgiveness of sin.
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Ted C
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01/03/2013 02:03 |
Jesus was both God and man. God became a man.
John 1:1 (NASB) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 (NASB) "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
If God and man are the same in essence, along with all creation, then there would be no need for verse 14. It would be unnecessary or should have been phrased, "And the Word became Word," or, "And the flesh became flesh,", or, "And the everything became everything," etc.
Yet over and over the Bible does make a distinction between God and His creation. In fact, even the verses you mentioned make the distinction.
You quote John 14:20, "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." Well, if what you are teaching is true then it should have been worded, "At that day ye shall know that I am my father, and ye are me, and I am you." But that's not what it says.
The same thing applies for John 17:21, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." It would have needed to be worded, "They are one as thou, Father, art me, and I thee, they also are us: that the world may believe that they are me." But it's not.
Scripture doesn't say explicitly anywhere that we are God or God is us. Instead it makes the opposite point every time the subject comes up.
Even to say that Christ lives in a redeemed believer's heart is to imply that there is a distinction between Christ and the believer. If we were one, Scripture would simply say, "Christ is the believer". But it doesn't say that anywhere.
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TRWord
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01/03/2013 21:47 |
Ted these are the words of Jesus Christ. These words seem to be different to what you believe because you seem to have the need to reword the scripture to fit your belief.
John 14:20KJV At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 17:21KJV That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Remember you asked: “TRWord, what Scriptures do you believe teach that all which is in existence IS the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
When faced with the scripture you asked for, now you’re saying “Well, if what you are teaching is true then it should have been worded.”
I don’t think we get to say how the scripture should be worded. We have to believe what is written.
You said: “If God and man are the same in essence, along with all creation, then there would be no need for verse 14. It would be unnecessary or should have been phrased, "And the Word became Word," or, "And the flesh became flesh,", or, "And the everything became everything," etc.”
This is “your literal understanding” of what is written, you have not yet learn to look to the spirit for the spiritual understanding of what’s written
Your problem is a lack of faith.
2 Cor. 5:7KJV (For we walk by faith, not by sight: )
Faith is the necessary requirement, for the journey from human understanding to spiritual understanding; But how many us of really understand what faith is?
In most dictionaries belief and faith are considered to be synonymous, and while this is literally true, “the faith” that’s required for the spiritual journey is of an entirely different understanding than the faith of the dictionary.
Faith is the ability to hold steadfastly to the “TRUTH,” even when what we see is the absolute opposite.
John 7:24KJV Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
It’s the ability to accept what we do not yet understand, and be confident that the understanding would be revealed to us.
John 16:13KJV Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
Faith is the belief in spirit, and “heaven, the realm of spirit.” It’s also the belief in the supremacy of spirit over the things of the earth.
Matt. 16:19KJV And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Without faith we can neither obey the teaching of Jesus Christ, receive what He have said, nor what He have promised.
John 14:12KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
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