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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Russ
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04/03/2011 22:58 |
Well said Deb. It all goes right back to what happened in the garden. The whole temptation story is one about satan tempting us to be like God, to be our own god and be in charge of our own destiny. No different than what you describe today Deb. The enemy has been at this trick along time, because we are all tempted to rule as "god" on our own thrones, when we need to cast our "crowns' down and kneel to the real King and Lord of the universe who is not us!
Russ
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TRWord
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04/18/2011 10:26 |
The Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the message of the scriptures; (the way to righteousness) (Matthew 22:36-40) but we have chosen the quest for prosperity instead. Even the religious have abandoned the message for the prosperity gospel.
God gave us His Son to reveal a new state of being through a new way of life. A life lived by faith in the Spirit, as oppose to one ruled by our desire to acquire and possess. He taught that through this state of being; (the consciousness of God as our Father) we are admitted into His kingdom, and all our needs are supplied.
Matt. 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Matt. 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Religion has abandon the teaching of Our Lord Jesus Christ, for the doctrine of salvation through the cross. This doctrine allows the believer to join the quest for prosperity, as long as he believes that the Lord died on the cross for his sins.
What is Oprah’s personal fortune.
Is it not written;
Matt. 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
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Ted C
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04/18/2011 10:30 |
"Then Jesus said to His disciples, 'If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.'"
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Ted C
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04/18/2011 11:34 |
Galatians 1:1
"Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead)"
Acts 9:3-6
"As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?' And he said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.'"
Galatians 1:8,9
"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"
1 Corinthians 15:1-8
"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also."
Galatians 6:14a
"But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ"
1 Corinthians 1:17,18
"For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
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TRWord
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04/19/2011 05:41 |
Ted
Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
This is the call to discipleship, which have been rejected by mainstream christianity.
Mainstream christianity is the law of Moses coupled with a misunderstanding of Paul letters.
To understand Paul’s letters we must understand the teaching of Jesus Christ first.
Paul taught a simplification of the gospel to the new converts.
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. (1 Corinthians 3:1-2KJV)
And Paul was always afraid that they would be misled by his simplification.
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:2-3KJV)
He continually spoke of the two understandings one of milk for babes and the other of meat.
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:13-14KJV)
He also said;
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. (1 Corinthians 13:11KJV)
This says that at some point the believer must give up one understanding for the other.
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Ted C
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04/19/2011 19:13 |
TR,
You said:
"To understand Paul’s letters we must understand the teaching of Jesus Christ first. Paul taught a simplification of the gospel..."
You're presenting a simplification? With all due respect there is a thread now seven ones down from this one (The existence of evil) with 91 posts where, to the best of my knowledge, we were still not able to get a clear answer from you regarding the nature of Jesus.
From your post of 03/29/2011 04:43 on that thread:
_____________________________________
Ted C wrote;
TR, to put the question a second time: Was Jesus in essence a different type of being than we are? Was He - and He alone - 100% man and 100% God concurrently; eternally distinct from the rest of mankind who are in no way now or ever will be inherently divine?
Or is "Christ" simply and entirely an office to which Jesus aspired, a position that each of us can attain through enlightenment and progression?
=======
Ted you have provided me with two options here and I guess I’m suppose to choose one of them. The problem is the Christ is neither. Ted you have placed your faith in doctrine and obviously have not studied the teaching of Jesus Christ...Here you’ll find that the Christ is a revelation not of flesh and blood, [in other words not of material perception] but a revelation from Our Father...Knowledge of the Son (the Christ) cannot be perceived through our material understanding, but only through the spirit...
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What you are advocating is apparently a form of Gnostic "hidden knowledge" that you believe you are privy to and which you share in veiled bits and pieces. I would call this the furthest thing from being simple - frank, up front and easy to understand.
Paul did teach a simplification of the Gospel:
"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you...that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
"For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity." (Ephesians 2:14-16)
"For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross" (Colossians 1:19,20a)
"When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." (Colossians 2:13,14)
And let us not forget the words of Peter:
"and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed." 2 Peter 2:24
Or the words of John the Baptist (as recorded by John the Apostle)
"The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'" (John 1:29)
And Jesus' words Himself:
"the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:28b)
"For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Mark 10:45)
"And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. And He said to them, 'This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.'" (Mark 14:23,24)
"And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.' And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, 'This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.'" (Luke 22:19,20
"Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, 'Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.'" Luke 24:45-47
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deborah
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04/19/2011 20:49 |
TR has made clear his belief in his post here. He believes that Jesus' message has been tossed aside for an erroneous belief in salvation ghtough Jedus' work on ghe cross. He does not believe that Jesus' death on the cross purchased our salvation. Whoever he thinks Jesus is or whatever he believes His teachings are matter not to me. He does not believe in the atoning work of the blood of Christ shed for our sins, therefore Jesus is not our savior. He has robbed Him of His diety, just as cults and anti-Christ religions do. That is all I need to know of his beliefs to reject them. He is free to believe as he chooses, just as I am free to reject his ideas.
That said - in my much less eloquent and surely less scholarly style - I must now ask that this topic return to Oprah. It has been hijacked. Please feel free to continue this discussion on another thread. It is a worthy discussion.
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Ted C
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04/20/2011 11:16 |
Great points Deb!
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Helga
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04/20/2011 22:49 |
Deb, I really really enjoy your posts. You have so much wisdom and you know what I like about your post is that you speak from the heart. It makes so much sense to me and I find someone who has gone through years of searching for God, like you, and finds Jesus and is now able to help others who are on the wrong path.
All I can say your experiences definitely are used for the Glory of God.
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TRWord
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04/21/2011 03:56 |
Sorry Mod Deb
I was just highlighting the fact that Jesus taught for quite a while before He went to the cross and that His death and resurrection was proof that what He taught was the Truth. I also belief if we focused on what He taught we would care less about what Oprah says.
Sorry again.
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