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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion

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Kelley 01/30/2012 19:51
Okay, Tom thought this seemed a little lobbed in from left field so let me try to clarify my point (although the point I am currently making is certainly not the sole reason to fast).... it is the PRACTICE of making choices that deny ourselves in favor of what Christ has asked us to do that save us when everything is stacked against us and we don't WANT to do the right thing. If we have practiced it over and over and over again, then when you have a night like I had yesterday.... doing the right thing, denying the self, the pain of moving forward toward a goal has become habit. Like an athlete logging miles and a violinist practicing scales.... how often to we practice saying no to ourselves in order to go higher? David said he would not offer to the Lord that which cost him nothing. The Bible is full of fasting for all different reasons.... Why did Christ fast? When Satan came with bread in his hand and a kingdom to offer.... Jesus already knew how to say no.
Craig from Illinois 01/30/2012 20:42

The line "my yoke is easy and my burden is light" (Matt. 11:30) came to mind when I read the last part of your post, Kelley. I hate throwing scripture around, but the verse came to mind so I wrote it. I looked it up for contextual accuracy. I bet this is one of Jesus's sayings that can get interpreted 10 different ways. But it sounds like he is saying that coming to Him is good for our soul. He has a yoke and he has a burden, but it's easy and light.

That is why I posted. Why create burdens and hard yokes out of religious practice. Why do people not find rest for their souls through coming to Christ? Why is it that when some put to practice the teachings of Jesus, they fail to find peace?

Relative to you and many others, I've had it easy and continue to do so. Compared to some I've got it hard. Sure, everyone is different and everyone has different experiences. Spirituality is so relative isn't it? What works for me may not work for someone else. That's weird stuff to consider. But is it the truth? Is the yoke of Jesus easy and His burden light?

Even in this one thread about fasting I am surprised that nobody is coming to the defense of fasting for the widely accepted reason that fasting is a way to get our prayers answered. So far we have...

1) Bring us closer to God.
2) training for a spiritual battle
3) hear God in our struggle
4) regain health
5) knowing our weakness
6) humility
7) being still
8) voluntary giving up things
9) dedicate time to Him
10) obedience

Nobody has said anything about wanting some prayers answered through fasting. It's seems hidden under all these other things. When it comes down to it, isn't that the real reason for fasting?

I've been blunt and insensitive throughout most of this thread. I love the freedom you all have allowed me. Please forgive me if I've hurt anyone. I know I'm most likely foolish to think that fasting is foolish. But I do have my reasons. The greatest reason is the mystery of how God can put Himself into us. Is that truth, fantasy or something in the middle? If it's truth, then what?

Craig from Illinois 01/30/2012 20:48
First, you jumped my post! Second, why did Jesus fast? Third, I'm all for spiritual maturity but the implication that I'm not pulling my weight on the spiritual heavy lifting was kinda out of bounds!

Is Tom coaching you? How's come he hasn't posted yet? :)
Kelley 01/30/2012 20:55
pfffft I never said you weren't pulling your weight. I said "they" and more or less meant "me." I need practice so that I don't fall and die under the weight of my own desires.
Craig from Illinois 01/30/2012 20:58
HEY!!! I got a "pffft"!
Tammy 01/31/2012 10:36
Craig, I have been lovingly trying to answer your questions. No one is implying that you need to fast, or that God has called you to do so. That is between you and our loving heavenly Father. Don't let the fact that some people are called to do so, pressure you. We are all called to different things, and God will make himself clear to you if he wants you to fast or not. Kelley, I think that is a wonderful insight that Jesus was fasting because he was practicing giving up things. The fact that He did so tells us that it should be a part of our Christian walk. It comes down to this: God knows when we need to do things. A couple of years ago, I wasn't in the same place I am now. And others are farther along in their walk in certain areas of spiritual growth - I may not even be ready to enter those doors. Also, Craig, the reason I didn't mention answering prayer is that I DON'T WANT to try to force God to do anything ahead of his timing. Period. End of story. But I do want to draw closer to God. I want to prepare my heart for what He is doing, because I know that He will use this situation for something great, both in my daughter's life, and in mine. I don't want to be so involved with the world that I don't hear His answer to my prayer. I don't like the implication that I am self righteous or hypocritical because I seek God. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but it runs under the tone of your words. That somehow because I am fasting and praying that I am trying to manipulate God.

God does put himself into us. God's Holy Spirit dwells in us. Trying to hear him more clearly is never wrong. And I have found peace through this process. The sense of peace that I have been given in the midst of this is indescribable. I'm not taking on more to fast. I'm simplifying. I'm focusing. And it is easy and light to do that. I AM asking for an answer to prayer, but not dictating the timing or what the answer is. I'm always asking for an answer to prayer. Why else would I pray?
Craig from Illinois 02/01/2012 07:05
When I question our spiritual practices, I'm trying to get to the heart of the matter. Questions like, "what's really going on?" is one of my favorites to ask. But because my questions comes from my own experiences and knowledge, it's going to sound short-sighted - because I am.

I'm done with this thread if everyone else is. Tammy, I am aware of some parts of your journey from previous prayer threads and posts. I was one of many who wrote a letter of encouragement to your daughter last year. I appreciate your deeper explanations of what you experienced and what you are hoping for. Any implication that you're self-righteous or hypocritical was not intentionally directed at your experience. It was a blanket implication because of my skepticism. You're right, those thoughts do run the tone of my words.

I like this quote from my favorite resource, GotQuestions.com, on the subject of prayer and fasting:


"One thing is clear: the theology of fasting is a theology of priorities in which believers are given the opportunity to express themselves in an undivided and intensive devotion to the Lord and to the concerns of spiritual life. This devotion will be expressed by abstaining for a short while from such normal and good things as food and drink, so as to enjoy a time of uninterrupted communion with our Father. Our “confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus” (Hebrews 10:19), whether fasting or not fasting, is one of the most delightful parts of that “better thing” which is ours in Christ. Prayer and fasting should not be a burden or a duty, but rather a celebration of God's goodness and mercy to His children."

So, it's an expression of devotion. I hear that in both Tammy and Kelley's response. Anything more than that still pushes my personal beliefs to the edge of "how, what and why".
Joyce 02/01/2012 09:46
Well I guess I will jump in here because I have some strong feelings about the prayer aspect of the fast. Craig, I have shared your thoughts and when I first heard Tammy mention the Daniel fast I wondered "why". As I look at Daniel chapter 10 I read it to say that God answered Daniel's prayer immediately but when it didn't look like God had heard him...Daniel fasted and prayed some more. Low and behold aan angel appeared to Daniel on the 24th day of the first month and said to Daniel from the first day God heard your words and sent me, but I ran into some demons along the way and had to do battle with them, so that's why it has taken so long to get here. Now of course I have used my own words here but that's basically the idea. So the question I am asking myself is this "was the angel able to make it to Daniel because his fasting helped defeat the enemy in the spiritual rhelm, or was it unnecessary because like the angel said God heard you immediately but it just took a little longer because I ran into much resistence? I just wanted to share my humble thoughts. I think often we give up in our prayers because we don't see results without taking into account there is a whole spiritual warfare going on.....so is it a better idea to just not fast and pray when we don't see our prayers answered or do we continue to pray with or without fasting through the spiritual warfare???
Jessica Throckmorton 02/01/2012 10:54
Aaah.., good point Joyce. I get impatient. I live in a fast paced modern world, with everything at my fingertips and live in an instant society. When I don't get the desired answer from God or any answer the tendency is to give up. I have unfulfilled life long dreams and desires that have yet not come to pass. For me I think it seems easier to give up than to stick it out and keep pressing on.

I wouldn't over analyze the whole fasting deal. If you know Gods voice, and he's called you to fast, than fast. God is amazing but not confusing and complicated. He makes our way light. Blessings!
Tammy 02/01/2012 15:43
I think that we should continue to pray. Daniel did. And I think that our prayers "avail much" in the spiritual realm. The literal translation to "ask and you will receive" is to "ask, and keep on asking" (a pastor once translated it into the Greek in a sermon). I believe we are being trained for something that God is going to do in his church. Thanks for all your comments!
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