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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Conversations with an atheist.
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Psalm 14:1 “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.” KJV
Since I don’t post here often, I should explain that I am a backslidden believer. I felt compelled however to share this story with this community. I do listen to the DAB most everyday and I do understand that we are all on our spiritual journey. Some of you are on the mountain tops and some of you might be in the valleys, and some of us (me included) have maybe shut our eyes tight hoping that it will all go away. I am sorry for the length of this post and I am not sure if anyone will even find this helpful or even worth thinking about, but I will say that it has stirred something in my very rebellious heart.
It all started a few weeks ago when I was bringing my store deposits where we have to take them in the morning. I knew Chris, the one that was receiving my money that morning, but honestly never really got to know much about him until this very day. My memory is a little foggy, but I think it started when he said Jesus a few times, you know as in the darn kind of way, and even though I am backslidden, it still bugs me to hear Jesus name abused, So I said “if you keep calling Him like that, He just might show up” and added rather wittingly, or so I thought, “Which would be good because I am positive that He could do this much faster.” That’s when it started, I watched a sinister grin forming on his face, you know the kind that you get when you have a really Gotcha moment, and he said “That would be nice but he doesn’t exist”. Without thinking I then asked.” what you don’t believe in God? “That’s when he hit me with a full out assault of what he calls, logic and reason.
Now this was the first time in awhile that I thought God had made a mistake. I felt that clearly our meeting wasn’t an accident, but why on earth God would put me in this guy’s path was beyond me. So after him asking if I were a Christian, to which I responded………well no, but I believe in God and would hate for anyone to view me as an example of a Christian. He then gave me the first of his little atheist sayings and said “Well you’re an atheist too, I just believe in one less god than you.” Cute huh?
Now he had me on facebook and for the next few days he somewhat flooded me with atheist stuff. It was mind boggling. He gave me a link that had apparently a list of 500 bible contradictions. Of course I look through them and find most of them are just twisted out of context and some of them from a lack of understanding, but there were a few that I didn’t have the answers too right away. I was introduced to Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris, the big name “New Atheist” guys. For a moment I felt beat down to be honest. The problem that I encountered was feeling that I had to try and defend everything ever done in God’s name. We all know some of things that have been done over the years in the name of God. We also know some of the short comings of those within the church. Here I was backslidden none the less, trying to prove to this guy that God exist and answering for the short comings of fallen men. To be honest for a minute, he made sense.
I mean honestly some of my new found friend’s questions did make sense. You know those questions that people have struggled with for centuries, how did Lucifer being in the presence of God sin? How could he possibly have talked 1/3rd of the angels into falling him? Why did God put Adam and eve in the garden knowing they would fall? Why would God keep creating people when the vast majority of them are going to go to hell? In the past I just kind of brushed off those questions and figured that God just didn’t reveal everything. I still believe that answer honestly, but it sounds pretty lame telling that to someone that doesn’t even believe in God. It seems like a convenient answer.
Then being fairly logical myself I concluded that for every argument there is a counter argument, so I started to google for the Christian response. God as always came through and I found some very intelligent Godly men. I watched hours of Dr. William Lane Craig. Even watched a 2+ hour debate where in my opinion Dr. Craig beat the stuffing out of Christopher Hitchens. I started flooding him back on facebook and at work. Then a funny thing happened to me. I realized that God had been sifting me. I could tell that my faith in God was stronger, but my sin wasn’t as enjoyable. I honestly felt sick, physically for like a week. I am not feeling that way and still backslidden but this is just the beginning of the story.
I could write more, but I am sure anyone that has gotten this far is probably about to pass out from boredom. As to what all of this means to you? Well I guess the one thing that I have learned in all of this is, as a believer God has given us just enough of him here in the world to believe, but He also left just enough out for you to doubt and I believe that to come to God does take a degree of faith, but it is far from a blind faith. I have yet to find a contradiction in the bible. The bible is full of prophecies that have come true. They are always finding more evidence of the accuracy in history of the bible. Not to mention the pure peace that I have known in the past when I was right with God. I can see Jesus through the entire bible. The bible was written over a 1400 year period by over 40 different authors that were everything from farmers, kings, prophets to fishermen and it all flows together. So that for me is enough proof that there is indeed a God.
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Lost Sheep 01/13/2012 14:36 |
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Joyce
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01/13/2012 16:34 |
Wow thanks Frank for your honest post. I will certainly let the bible scholars here at DAB give you feedback on the scholarly questions you ask. However the more I read your story the bigger my smile got as I could just see how God had orchestrated this whole thing for you :). I mean look what happened: You dove into scripture to find answers etc. I love it and please know that I will be praying for your continued journey through His word. Blessings
Joyce
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Perry
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01/13/2012 17:10 |
After reading your post… I would like to say, “thank you”. Thank you for sharing your unbelief… of which I feel many of us have but at times are afraid to voice. The “process” of “believing” is not without its struggle and mind boggling questions. I’m reminded of the faith and belief of a child’s heart and how refreshing it is that a child can believe things at face value… without the dissertation of numerous commentaries. I was speaking to a man the other night about Biblical truths and it soon became a struggling experience… his way of arriving at God’s truth was scattered at best… ever sifting and working the text in and out of the original languages… Before long this “process” was bound to create more confusion and was soon to lead to dissension and divisiveness, or at least hard feelings toward one another.
I felt embarrassed that I had left this conversation take itself down a path that was soon becoming less and less profitable for God’s kingdom. (All the while, not really wanting to “go there” with the conversation… after-all, I thought I had to run… better things to do) Than it hit me, like a ton of bricks… God wants me to be His workmanship… His witness… what hit me was Col. 1:16, I am created by Him and “for Him”! Wow, we have purpose…I have purpose! At that very moment, I took a totally different technique and we sat and talked, read Scripture, laughed, prayed… what a memory looking back on it. No, we didn’t arrive at every perfect answer… but we did agree that faith is where it all begins… without faith… one will never take that first step of the journey itself… nor the second or the third.
Thank God for His ever loving me… and I am so humbled that he would ever allow me the opportunity to witness on His behalf. After-all, I’m just a “dork…saved by grace”. I do appreciate your heart response to what God has given you… the fact that you took the time and spoke to this person at all concerning the use of Jesus name proves to me that God is at work in you. My only advice would be to not sell yourself short; let us always remember...we are adopted children of the most high God! Even with what seems to be behaviors or thoughts of “back sliding” our God is still working a great work. Let us continue seeking Him… keep that relationship healthy with prayer and the reading and studying of God’s Word… and also remember how Jesus spoke directly to us... He promised that "I will never leave you nor forsake you… even unto the end of the age." Thanks again for sharing...
God Bless…In His Love
Perry
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Ray
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01/14/2012 09:13 |
beautiful, absolutely, beautiful. "my new found friend’s questions.." That's what it's all about. Don't worry with ALL the details, focus on what is before you NOW, your new friend. Nobody can argue with the love that is in you. Your friend can reject it, but he can't argue with who you are. You are a testimony to love that Jesus wants for us.
"anyone that has gotten this far is probably about to pass out from boredom..." Quite the opposite, possibly one of the best posts ever. Keep 'em coming. Hey, are the video discussions of Lane and Hitchens publicly available?
"the pure peace that I have known..." Yeah, man. The alternative is so dark, fruitless, and painful. I used to think that going with Jesus cost you everything. Later it dawned on me the "everything" it cost was worthless and the result was priceless. Freedom. Your post confirms it. Thanks.
So freakin' cool!
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Ray
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01/14/2012 09:17 |
one of the teachings I go to for a general perspective on what you are doing is here:
http://www.themeetinghouse.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=121&Itemid=3
Down on the right "Say What" June 10, 2010. It's on itunes, also. It is a great view of what the task really is all about with your friend.
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