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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Sacred Chant
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What has been your experience with sacred chant?
I know chanting isn't a common part of Protestant tradition
(though Praise Choruses could be considered chanting, I suppose -
when I introduced them at one church I served,
someone said he liked them because they were like a mantra he found himself repeating in his mind all week!)
It is much more common in Roman Catholicism,
in such forms as Gregorian Chant and the Rosary,
and the contemplative prayer popularized by John Mains, Fr Laurence Freeman,
and the World Community for Christian Meditation.
And of course it is very common to Eastern traditions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Sikhism.
Eastern meditation includes the use of a prayer beads, or japa mala,
from which Catholicism borrowed the idea - and the name - for the rosary.
"The name of the rosary, which has obvious similarities to the mala, is said to have come from japa mala.
When Roman explorers came into India and encountered the mala, they heard jap mala instead of japa mala.
Jap means 'rose', and the mala was carried back to the Roman Empire as rosarium, and into English as rosary."
As I understand it,one of the purposes of sacred chant is to center the heart and mind,
as an act of devotion and as a way of gently removing distractions and opening the spirit.
Mantras could be such things as repeating the word "Maranatha" or "Abba" or "Shalom."
"The main reason for using a prayer, a mantra, is to clear the mind of any other thoughts
and focus it lovingly and one-pointedly on the Divine."
http://wccm.org/content/weekly-teachings-19062011
I have a Tibetan mala, and have been using it to recite some of the Sikh mantras I love each morning.
(In case you have theological concerns,
Shanti Shanti, two devout Catholic girls who amazingly learned Sanskrit on their own at ages 7 and 9,
have chanted at Catholic masses. They were at first concerned that the mantras were addressed to Hindu deities
but came to realize that the so-called "gods" simply represented different aspects or attributes of the one God,
just as in English and in Greek and Hebrew we refer to God by many names, "Rock," "Redeemer," "Healer," "Provider,"
"Jehovah Jireh," "Jehovah Raphah", etc.
I like the sound of Sanskrit and Gurmukhi,
and find power in the sound just as some find power in the Latin Mass or the Hebrew Scriptures in the synagogue,
even if they don't always know the exact meaning of the words.
The music I listen to most often when I am on the treadmill
is either Rebecca St. James' worship music
or the music of Snatam Kaur and others singing the chants we did at Spirit Fest last year.
It is so powerful!)
Anyway, this has been a much longer post than I intended,
but I am new to this and wondered what experiences anyone else here has had with sacred chant.
Thanks for your comments
Lanny
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Lanny Carlson 01/16/2012 19:05 |
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wesrman
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01/16/2012 19:26 |
I have used meditation in the past before i became a Christ follower and have been using it again recently to try to connect more deeply with God. i find it helps with anxiety and helps me focus better.
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Tammy
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01/17/2012 09:06 |
I love Gregorian chant and I agree that praise choruses are a form of chant. I find them playing over and over in my mind, and God often uses them to speak to me.
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Catholica
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01/18/2012 16:25 |
Hi Lanny,
I started responding to this post a couple of times and I decided not to finish a couple of times. In another thread you asked me to respond, so I will. Tonight or tomorrow morning I should have time.
God Bless you and yours.
Andre
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wesrman
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01/18/2012 17:03 |
I'm very much looking forward to your response Catholica. Most of my study of has been of St. Ignatius.
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Mike Mead
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01/18/2012 18:27 |
I dont' have anythign against chants as long as we realize that they are for our sakes and not Gods. Jesus taught to be careful in this area in Matthew 6. Mat 6:5 "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
Mat 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Mat 6:7 "And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
Mat 6:8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Again, I don't see a prohibition, just a caution from the Lord.
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Catholica
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01/27/2012 09:19 |
Hi Lanny,
I am finally getting to this thread as I said that I would. I've been around these parts a long time now! I know how much music means to you, and I too love how music can lift our soul up toward God.
The inspiration for finally writing a response came this morning, on my way to work. I was driving along alone in my car, the sun was burning bright piercing through clouds in the winter morning sky. I was listening to my podcasts as usual, when something very unusual indeed starting playing.
http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20120101-Veni-Creator-Spiritus.html
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Latin text
Veni, creator Spiritus mentes tuorum visita,
imple superna gratia, quae tu creasti pectora.
Qui diceris Paraclitus, altissimi donum Dei,
fons vivus, ignis, caritas et spiritalis unctio.
Tu septiformis munere, digitus paternae dexterae
tu rite promissum Patris sermone ditans guttura.
Accende lumen sensibus, infunde amorem cordibus,
infirma nostri corporis, virtute firmans perpeti.
Hostem repellas longius pacemque dones protinus;
ductore sic te praevio vitemus omne noxium.
Per te sciamus da Patrem noscamus atque Filium,
te utriusque Spiritum credamus omni tempore.
Deo Patri sit gloria, et Filio qui a mortuis
Surrexit, ac Paraclito, in saeculorum saecula. Amen.
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For an English translation: http://www.the-latinmass.com/id143.html (See: Come, Holy Spirit)
This is an example of Gregorian Chant, and it was beautiful. I had to listen to it a few times to take it in, it moved my soul so much. And there in the beauty and majesty of God's creation, a burning sun in the midst of the stark cold Minnesota Winter morning.
Gregorian Chant is called chant because it uses only the human voice, or a set of human voices, to make music, and it was a form developed and made part of the mass by Pope Gregory the Great who reigned ca. 600 AD. This particular prayer and chant (Veni, Creator Spiritus) was written in the 9th century.
Getting back to the original post, I notice that you also have called the rosary "chant". This confused me, because we don't associate the word "chant" with the rosary. To us, the word chant indicates a form of music. The Rosary to us is a prayer, and while praying it we do a form of contemplative prayer. But this to us is not a chant, though I suppose it could be chanted.
This association you made caused me to wonder about another word you used, that being "mantra". This is what I found:
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantra:
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A mantra is a sound, syllable, word, or group of words that is considered capable of "creating transformation" (cf. spiritual transformation).Its use and type varies according to the school and philosophy associated with the mantra.
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The Rosary itself certainly may appear in form like a set of Sikh prayer beads, but if Sikh are using a mantra, as defined above, then this is very different from the Rosary at its spiritual core. The Rosary is repetitive prayer, for sure, but the prayers are asking for God's help, or for intercession for us, or giving glory to God. We don't believe that the words themselves create spiritual transformation, but rather that God's grace creates spiritual transformation in response to our prayers. I think even though this distinction seems subtle, if I understand "mantras" correctly, they are actually worlds apart, a mantra seeming to indicate belief that the transformation comes from what we are doing, a prayer indicating belief that the change comes from God.
Finally the meditations that we do during the Rosary are centered around gospel and Trinitarian mysteries. We meditate on them because we believe that we are to live our lives as Christ did, and I think if I understand your practice you believe that too! Yet there is something deeper, and one can't help consider in awe the great blessings that God gave to us when he came and dwelt among us, and suffered and died for us, and then rose again. They reinforce how much God loves us and also show us how to love others. The Rosary is a wonderful prayer.
In any case, I love Gregorian chant, especially in the context of the liturgy or in the solitude amidst God's creation. There is something transcendent there that speaks to my soul. I'm not sure if Sikh chant is really truly like Gregorian chant as it does not use a repetitive mantra, but rather is a simplistic form of singing a prayer. And the Rosary is kind of like but in someways unlike what I understand to be the sort of chant w/mantras that you are referring to. But whether it be sacred music or sacred chant, I know that these things keep us connected with God insofar as they reflect the divine reality and transcendence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMZYg1SmFVY
God Bless!
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Lanny Carlson
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01/27/2012 16:10 |
Thank you, Andre.
Your comments were very helpful.
You are correct that quite often it seems that the belief is that the words themselves have power, and I have a problem with that - though, of course, we know that music sometimes DOES seem to have power to move and transform us.
And, as Brian is always pointing out, the tongue is a powerful thing and the words we use do have power for good and ill. But this is a little different than the power ascribed to mantra. I will have to ask some of my on line Sikh friends about this - I suspect, though, if pressed, that they would say that the power of the words comes in part in that they help connect us to the divine and the divine uses the words and sounds to bring transformation. But that's just my own thought off the top of my head, so don't take it as more than my opinion.
Actually, I just went to SpiritVoyage.com, and found an article on mantra chant
from my friend Ramdesh Kaur.
http://www.spiritvoyage.com/blog/index.php/an-introduction-to-chanting/
In that article is this paragraph:
"Chanting typically involves repeating a mantra or a prayer. 'Man' means mind and 'tra' means across, so a mantra is something that is repeatedly crossing your mind to control your thoughts for meditation. You are giving your hyperactive mind something holy to play with so that it calms down. You can also interpret the word to mean a phrase which allows you to cross over your mind to get to your heart. The words of a mantra are a boat that takes you across the ocean of your mind to arrive at the shores of the divine."
This is similar to Rhonda Jones says in her website on Christ-Centered Meditation,
when she speaks of Mantra Meditation, by which she means repeating a verse of Scripture or even a word like "Jesus."
It's also what John Mains, Fr Laurence Freeman,
and the World Community for Christian Meditation
seem to have in mind. They especially encourage the use of the word "Maranatha"
as a mantra, again not as a "magical incantation," but as a way of focusing the mind and quieting the mind in order to enter into deeper communion with God.
http://www.wccm.org/content/what-meditation
http://www.wccm.org/sites/default/files/users/PDF/2011/WhydoChristianMeditatorscalltheprayerwordamantra.doc.pdf
As you said,
we usually think of chanting as a form of music,
and the Sikh mantras I know are usually done to music,
though they - and Christian mantras as well -
could just as easily be spoken without music.
The beads are used when a mantra is repeated,
with or without music, as a way of counting.
Traditionally a mala has 108 beads,
and a mantra is repeated 108 times.
Isn't the Rosary also used as a counting device?
I've been using a CD by Deva Premal,
"Mantras for Precarious Times,"
especially the mantra,
"Om Shree Dhanvantre Namaha,"
which she translates as,
"Salutations to the being and power of the celestial healer."
Another mantra, not only this CD,
and used in a lot of Sikh songs, is
"Ong Namo Guru Dev Namo,"
"I bow to the Creator, I bow to the Divine Teacher."
I really haven't gotten into chanting that much or that regularly,
and am just exploring it.
That's why I started this thread, to see what other people's experiences had been.
I can't say I've experienced a great deal of benefit from the repetitive chanting,
but if it helps to quiet my jumping "monkey mind," that would help.
More than the repetitive chanting,
I enjoy the mantras when they are done in song,
such as this one from my favorite artist, Snatam Kaur:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOts5dVOpRE
The mantra begins about half way through
Anyway, I've rambled on enough.
Thanks for allowing me to share.
Grace and Peace!
Lanny
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rustcp
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01/31/2012 23:23 |
This is beautiful:
English version:
Come, Holy Spirit, Creator blest,
and in our souls take up Thy rest;
come with Thy grace and heavenly aid
to fill the hearts which Thou hast made.
O comforter, to Thee we cry,
O heavenly gift of God Most High,
O fount of life and fire of love,
and sweet anointing from above.
Thou in Thy sevenfold gifts are known;
Thou, finger of God's hand we own;
Thou, promise of the Father,
Thou Who dost the tongue with power imbue.
Kindle our sense from above,
and make our hearts o'erflow with love;
with patience firm and virtue high
the weakness of our flesh supply.
Far from us drive the foe we dread,
and grant us Thy peace instead;
so shall we not, with Thee for guide,
turn from the path of life aside.
Oh, may Thy grace on us bestow
the Father and the Son to know;
and Thee, through endless times confessed, of both the eternal Spirit blest.
Now to the Father and the Son,
Who rose from death, be glory given,
with Thou, O Holy Comforter,
henceforth by all in earth and heaven. Amen.
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