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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Saint Grogan
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03/06/2012 22:06 |
Craig,
Lanny said:
“Brian often paints the picture of people sitting around a campfire,
listening to the stories that had been passed down from generation to generation.
Before writing was invented, that's how the story was preserved.”
Then he said:
“I'm also ____ that as the stories were passed down,
the stories were inevitably embellished or modified to fit their audience.
Scholars have even recognized different strands of tradition
which were ultimately woven into the final form we have today.”
The proof text I provided said that the writers of Scripture got their inspiration from the Holy Spirit Himself. The writers of Scripture wrote what the Holy Spirit wanted them to write. The stories that Moses included in his writings were not passed down as Lanny suggests and put down in writing in an inaccurate and corrupted form. Was any part of Scripture taught orally before it was written down? Sure it was. But Scripture was written by authors who were selected by God and given the material they wrote by God. No part of Scripture was passed down orally from generation to generation. It was passed down orally from God to its writers.
I would be interested in how you see from the Scriptures I provided say that Scripture was passed down orally in the manner you and Lanny suggest. The responsibility of showing where oral tradition was part of the origin of our Scriptures is yours to produce, not mine. I’ve shown you from Scripture where it is excluded.
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Ray
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03/07/2012 05:52 |
Isabel,
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. (John 10:10)
Have you ever wondered why Jesus married those two statements? Did you even know he spoke them at the same time? I mean, he says them in one breath. And he has his reasons. By all means, God intends life for you. But right now that life is opposed. It doesn't just roll in on a tray. There is a thief. He comes to steal and kill and destroy. Why won't we face this? I know so few people who will face this. The offer is life, but you're going to have to fight for it, because there's an Enemy in your life with a different agenda.
There is something set against us. We are at war.
I don't like that fact any more than you do, but the sooner we come to terms with it, the better hope we have of making it through to the life we do want. This is not Eden. You probably figured that out. This is not Mayberry, this is not Seinfeld's world, this is not Survivor. The world in which we live is a combat zone, a violent clash of kingdoms, a bitter struggle unto the death. I am sorry if I'm the one to break this news to you: you were born into a world at war, and you will live all your days in the midst of a great battle, involving all the forces of heaven and hell and played out here on earth.
Where did you think all this opposition was coming from? (Waking the Dead , 12-13)
I'm going to loose faith in my savior because some old text doesn't FEEL right? Are you feelings reliable? Those texts are pointers to the only REAL thing. They are hints at the eternal. The REAL thing is hear and now. He is alive though the enemy killed him. They want you dead, also. The REAL thing is the love of Jesus. I made the assumption about your feelings. It's just a guess. What form does the opposition take? The father of lies has got a million of em.
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Saint Grogan
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03/07/2012 14:01 |
Good post Ray,
Too many people don’t see this aspect of being a child of God. Jesus said:
“ I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.” (John 15:1-2)
God is going to test your faith. He does this by letting the enemy at you. It doesn’t happen once . A true disciple of Christ will not fall away but be strengthened by the experience. You must be pretty special for God to do this. Lean on Him for strength. Ask that you may pass the testing. Ask that this testing not be in vain. You will come out the other side with more faith, more understanding.
“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.” (John 15:3-4)
The Bible you hold in your hand is God’s word. They are the words of Jesus. It is reliable and, as some have argued, has not been corrupted over time. God said that He would protect His word and He has. If you continue to read it, obey it, hold it in your heart, you will be “cleansed” in the sense that lies, rumors or notions will be revealed for what they are.
“ I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” (John 15:5)
Your Christian walk is “nourished” through Jesus and He speaks to us through His word. There is no other way.
Read…meditate…pray…Ask for prayer from your Brothers and Sisters. I will pray that your faith not fail, Isabel.
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Tom B
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03/07/2012 16:57 |
Hi Isabel.
Praying with you today.
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Marcie in MO
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03/10/2012 19:50 |
Left you another message, Isabel. :)
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Ray
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03/15/2012 12:16 |
out of the discipline of dismay will come the ability to follow Jesus TRUELY.
Today's utmost entry speaks about the difficult times where we want to "look back" because we don't know what He is up to, and we are afraid.
As they followed they were afraid —Mark 10:32
At the beginning of our life with Jesus Christ, we were sure we knew all there was to know about following Him. It was a delight to forsake everything else and to throw ourselves before Him in a fearless statement of love. But now we are not quite so sure. Jesus is far ahead of us and is beginning to seem different and unfamiliar— “Jesus was going before them; and they were amazed” (Mark 10:32).
There is an aspect of Jesus that chills even a disciple’s heart to its depth and makes his entire spiritual life gasp for air. This unusual Person with His face set “like a flint” (Isaiah 50:7) is walking with great determination ahead of me, and He strikes terror right through me. He no longer seems to be my Counselor and Friend and has a point of view about which I know nothing. All I can do is stand and stare at Him in amazement. At first I was confident that I understood Him, but now I am not so sure. I begin to realize that there is a distance between Jesus and me and I can no longer be intimate with Him. I have no idea where He is going, and the goal has become strangely distant.
Jesus Christ had to understand fully every sin and sorrow that human beings could experience, and that is what makes Him seem unfamiliar. When we see this aspect of Him, we realize we really don’t know Him. We don’t recognize even one characteristic of His life, and we don’t know how to begin to follow Him. He is far ahead of us, a Leader who seems totally unfamiliar, and we have no friendship with Him.
The discipline of dismay is an essential lesson which a disciple must learn. The danger is that we tend to look back on our times of obedience and on our past sacrifices to God in an effort to keep our enthusiasm for Him strong (see Isaiah 1:10-11). But when the darkness of dismay comes, endure until it is over, because out of it will come the ability to follow Jesus truly, which brings inexpressibly wonderful joy.
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Saint Grogan
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03/15/2012 14:13 |
We may be talking about the same thing here Ray,
Most Christians experience something called “Spiritual Winter”, when God seems silent or distant. We are meant to experience this to see if God can get our attention not that we’ve done something wrong or anything. Did we simply “pray the prayer” and did the alter call thing so we’re good to go. If this is you, use this time to “examine yourself to see if you are in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5). Is your faith genuine or are you like the seed that fell upon stony ground (Mark 4:16) and have no root to speak of. The honeymoon ends sometime.
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Ray
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03/15/2012 14:52 |
I was seeing this one a little different. More like He is the fearless commander of the Heavenly hosts and when we see Him charging way ahead we freeze and sometimes look back as if what we have done before will be sufficient. But He is so out there, we know nothing of this fierce leadership to victory.
Eldredge writes of this aspect of Him:
Can you picture Gandhi or Buddha storming into the polling place of a local election, shouting, overturning tables, sending the participants fleeing? Now throw a small carnival into the mix, which they also need to rout. Impossible. Whoever did this would have to be really committed to clear the building. Fierce and intentional. This is a breathtaking quality—especially when compared to our present age where doubt masquerades as humility, passivity cloaks as rest, and emasculated indecision poses as laid-back enlightenment. Oh, Jesus could be soft, and he certainly was humble, but his fierce intentionality is riveting to watch. - Beautiful Outlaw (p. 37)
I not suggesting we be violent in action, but fierce in setting our minds on things above. It's a fight to do it. Not easy at all. Sometimes we freeze up like scared deer and resolve just to give up, which is where we began with this. I don't know if that's what Isabel is doing. I'm just speculating about the kind of things that go on here on planet Earth that try to defeat us.
I was listening to a talk by Dallas Willard and he made reference to the parable of the sower. He said that we usually think of the parable in terms of the result of outreach, but in fact the same holds true about all His communication to us, including order to charge the gates of hell. He speaks to us as we go with Him and the words are subject to the same dangers. We may have gotten a glimpse of His love for us, but there is so much more to it that the walk is required to grow us up in the Spirit. As we are growing up, His words can get just a choked out in weeds or what have you. Believers have weeds, packed down, and shallow soil that need to be worked. This work can be quite challenging and frightening.
Endure, y'all! He is good.
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Ray
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03/16/2012 05:27 |
With regard to the idea I put forth, that Jesus' fierce behavior scares us, I wrote that there might be this aggressive advance on the part of the Lord and with it a command to "charge the gates of hell." This can take on all sorts of manifestations in our lives. The battlefield is very often our mind or perhaps some area of slavery to this world we have not let go. Orders to attack that sort of thing can freeze us just as much as any physical activity we are called to.
Psalm 37:23-24
23 The LORD makes firm the steps
of the one who delights in him;
24 though he may stumble, he will not fall,
for the LORD upholds him with his hand.
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Saint Grogan
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03/16/2012 06:41 |
Amen Ray!
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