Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion

manuscript dating
earlier this morning, I was surfing through some pages looking at manuscript dating for the new testament (as well as the septuagint - the greek old testament translation)
the secular website information includes dates for most manuscripts from 200 AD as extant (assuming they are protected at present for obvious reasons!)
here's the link:
http://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/scriptorium/papyrus/texts/manuscripts.html

several other sites came up, largely christian websites. From a scholarly perspective they might be questioned, but some interesting facts came up, with a fragment of John (4 verses worth) extant from anywhere from 120 AD to the time of the apostle's life - 5 years or so post - writing around 100 AD!

the most accurate book in all of antiquity is the one scholars attack the most. I suspect bias...hehe...

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2012/03/21/an-interview-with-daniel-b-wallace-on-the-new-testament-manuscripts/

also, another forum to note for discussion:

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=10624

thoughts?

James Griffey 10/27/2013 21:51

Replies: (page   1   2)
Catholica 10/30/2013 10:07
Certainly interesting. It almost makes you wonder why the Biblical autographs were destroyed/lost. It was probably because they were handled so much, but I also wonder if maybe God allowed it so that people wouldn't fall into a type of Bible-idolatry, as if there were something magical about the originals themselves rather than the message contained therein.

Here is some information I came across which runs along similar lines: not the dating of manuscripts but about the date which the books of the Bible were accepted into the Canon of scripture, or were generally accepted as scripture by the Church.



A Visual Diagram of the History of the New Testament Canon

Explanation of Symbols:

* Book accepted (or quoted)
? Book personally disputed or mentioned as disputed
x Book rejected, unknown, or not cited


New Testament Period (c.35-90)

In this period there is little formal sense of a Canon of Scripture

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Apostolic Fathers (90-160)

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Summary: The New Testament is still not clearly distinguished qualitatively from other Christian writings

Gospels Generally accepted by 130
Justin Martyr's "Gospels" contain apocryphal material
Polycarp first uses all four Gospels now in Scripture
Acts Scarcely known or quoted
Pauline Corpus Generally accepted by 130, yet quotations are rarely introduced as scriptural
Philippians, 1 Timothy: x Justin Martyr
2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon: x Polycarp, Justin Martyr
Hebrews Not considered canonical
? Clement of Rome
x Polycarp, Justin Martyr
James Not considered canonical; not even quoted
x Polycarp, Justin Martyr
1 Peter Not considered canonical
2 Peter Not considered canonical, nor cited
1, 2, 3 John Not considered canonical
x Justin Martyr
1 John ? Polycarp / 3 John x Polycarp
Jude Not considered canonical
x Polycarp, Justin Martyr
Revelation Not canonical
x Polycarp

***************************************************

Irenaeus to Origen (160-250)

***************************************************

Summary: Awareness of a Canon begins towards the end of the 2nd century

Tertullian and Clement of Alexandria first use phrase New Testament
Gospels Accepted
Acts Gradually accepted
Pauline Corpus Accepted with some exceptions:
2 Timothy: x Clement of Alexandria
Philemon: x Irenaeus, Origen, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria
Hebrews Not canonical before the 4th century in the West.
? Origen
* First accepted by Clement of Alexandria
James Not canonical
? First mentioned by Origen
x Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria
1 Peter Gradual acceptance
* First accepted by Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria
2 Peter Not canonical
? First mentioned by Origen
x Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria
1 John Gradual acceptance
* First accepted by Irenaeus
x Origen
2 John Not canonical
? Origen
x Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria
3 John Not canonical
? Origen
x Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria
Jude Gradual acceptance
* Clement of Alexandria
x Origen
Revelation Gradual acceptance
* First accepted by Clement of Alexandria
x Barococcio Canon, c.206
Epistle of Barnabas * Clement of Alexandria, Origen
Shepherd of Hermas * Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria
The Didache * Clement of Alexandria, Origen
The Apocalypse of Peter * Clement of Alexandria
The Acts of Paul * Origen
* Appears in Greek, Latin (5), Syriac, Armenian, & Arabic translations
Gospel of Hebrews * Clement of Alexandria

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Muratorian Canon (c.190)

Excludes Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter

Includes The Apocalypse of Peter, Wisdom of Solomon

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Origen to Nicaea (250-325)

********************************************

Summary: The Catholic epistles and Revelation are still being disputed

Gospels, Acts, Pauline Corpus Accepted
Hebrews * Accepted in the East
x, ? Still disputed in the West
James x, ? Still disputed in the East
x Not accepted in the West
1 Peter Fairly well accepted
2 Peter Still disputed
1 John Fairly well accepted
2, 3 John, Jude Still disputed
Revelation Disputed, especially in the East
x Dionysius

************************************************

Council of Nicaea (325)

Questions canonicity of James, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, and Jude

*************************************************

From 325 to the Council of Carthage (397)

*************************************************

Summary: Athanasius first lists our present 27 New Testament books as such in 367. Disputes still persist concerning several books, almost right up until 397, when the Canon is authoritatively closed

Gospels, Acts, Pauline Corpus, 1 Peter, 1 John Accepted
Hebrews Eventually accepted in the West
James Slow acceptance
Not even quoted in the West until around 350!
2 Peter Eventually accepted
2, 3 John, Jude Eventually accepted
Revelation Eventually accepted
x Cyril of Jerusalem, John Chrysostom, Gregory Nazianz
Epistle of Barnabas * Codex Sinaiticus - late 4th century
Shepherd of Hermas * Codex Sinaiticus - late 4th century
Used as a textbook for catechumens according to Athanasius
1 Clement, 2 Clement * Codex Alexandrinus - early 5th century (!)


Sources for N.T. Canon Chart:

1) Douglas, J.D., ed., New Bible Dictionary, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1962 ed., 194-98.
2) Cross, F.L., and E.A. Livingstone, eds., The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, Oxford: Oxford Univ. Press, 2nd ed., 1983, 232,300,309-10,626,641,724,1049,1069;
3) Geisler, Norman L. & William E. Nix, From God to Us: How We Got Our Bible, Chicago: Moody Press, 1974, 109-12,117-25.
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