|
|
Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
| |
GUS SUPAN
|
11/19/2013 13:32 |
Catholica is it possible to dialog via email?
|
| |
Catholica
|
11/19/2013 13:47 |
Sure. You can see my email address by clicking my user name.
|
| |
Davidwayne Lackey
|
11/19/2013 18:13 |
Welcome Matteo,
I like the way you worded your post and the opinion you expressed. I really didn't see this thread as a discussion on who is or is not Christian though. I suppose it could have been taken that way but I didn't pick up on that initially. I did pick up on the argument between Protestant and Catholic doctrines and it is, I believe, what is at the core of this thread about what is truth or more specifically how can you know what is truth. I think this question supersedes denominational affiliation even though many may disagree with that.
For the record I don't believe any denomination has a lock on the title of Christian. I do believe there are true Christians in almost all denominations, Protestant, Catholic, Messianic, or Non denominational. Jesus admonished His own Disciples not to stop someone who was preaching in His name even though the man was not in the disciples flock. He told them if someone is for Him then they are not against Him. I believe the same thing is true when it comes to all the different denominations. If someone stands up for Jesus with a true disciples heart then I would not judge against that person or against that persons denomination one way or another as to if they were Christian or not. Time will tell with whatever fruit comes from the denomination or the one making the claim. It is by their fruit you will know them.
|
| |
Catholica
|
11/21/2013 11:24 |
Gus, were you able to find my email? I haven't received anything from you yet.
DavidWayne, if you go to the original topic, it was asked of Brian "Are you inferring that Catholics are Christian?" Followed by a statement of opinion that "most seem not to be". So it seemed to be that "who is or is not Christian" was the topic of the thread.
|
| |
Matteo Masiello
|
11/21/2013 12:12 |
David
I hear what you are saying but most Christians don't accept other as being "true" Christians. I have found that professing Jesus with your lips and in your heart is not good enough. What follows is the requirement of "right" theology. I contend there is no such thing as all theology is conceptual. If the Holy Spirit truly inspires someone in their theology then that transmission is purely subjective. What follows as you point out is the fruits. So some discernment can be made but who is to say how ripe the fruits are? Some Christians verbalized that they possess Gods righteousness. I cannot argue with them but am reluctant to join them in their Chridtisn life as I don't share their expressions if faith. The more I come to living in Christ the more reluctant I am to make it about me. I cannot voice my egotistical pats on the back but only become less of me and more if Him in me.
Perhaps the incredulity to think that some Phillipino Catholics are not Christians comes from a lack of undrrstanding the cultural affectations at work in defining who they are. All too often American Christians think they are more Christian but fail to see they are the product of cultural and historical development that is grounded in European paradigms.
|
| |
Davidwayne Lackey
|
11/21/2013 16:13 |
Your right Andre, I picked up on the part where he said "though some seems to be" and the most part referring to some of the Catholic doctrines. It was real late when I first read it and I had a long day. It just seemed to me at the time like the root subject was who is following truth and who is following heresy. And how can you be Christian if you are part of a denomination that has some parts of their doctrine that are lies. This begs the question what is truth and how can you know it.
When reading a post I have a habit of going through it in my mind for the root cause and sometimes I get ahead of things with the discussion I'm having with myself over the question. If that makes sense, LOL.
This same argument can be made about all denominations as to how can you be Christian. I have heard the same thing from Catholics about anyone who wasn't Catholic wasn't Christian. To them if you are not part of the Catholic Church, baptized by a Catholic Priest, you are not Christian. So the real root of the question is what is truth and how can you know it because Gus did admit that he believed some Catholics are Christian.
|
| |
Davidwayne Lackey
|
11/21/2013 16:23 |
That should read you're right Andre. Sorry I need to do a better job of editing before posting.
|
| |
Davidwayne Lackey
|
11/21/2013 17:08 |
Matteo,
I think for the most part you have hit the nail on the head. When it come to Theology I don' think any of us will get it all right this side of Heaven. The only answer I have found that makes sense, to me anyway, is we are all works in progress. Imperfect and growing in The Lord as we go. Our Theology changes as we mature and total maturity does not come in this lifetime.
It's very difficult for most of us to think outside the box we are raised in. As we grow in The Lord He does the changing within us that we are not capable of. 40 years ago I though very differently than I do now. I'm sure that 40 years from now I'll see many things very differently than I do now too. I can say I'm a lot less confused than I was 40 years ago and a lot more accepting of other Christians even if I am sure that some of their Theology is way off the mark. I learned to have grace because I learned that I needed the same kind of grace at one time.
So to me the answer of can you be a Christian if you are part of a denomination that has false doctrine is yes. I have in the past not knowing I was and I know I was Christian then as I am now.
|
| |
Catholica
|
11/22/2013 12:20 |
Hi David,
I just wanted to clarify, that the Catholic Church teaches that anyone can baptize, and that it does not teach that anyone who is not Catholic is not Christian.
Many are not aware of this, but there are a series of groups out there who try to stake claim to the name Catholic, and who even hold to most Catholic doctrines, but they reject the pope and "changes" they claim have happened in the Church, which are not really changes to doctrine. They may sometimes hold to this rigorous doctrine surrounding baptism as you have encountered, but Catholic doctrine (as most people recognize "Catholic") proclaims that anyone can baptize.
Gus "admitted" that some Catholics are Christian, but in a later post about "who is a Christian" his guidelines effectively ruled out anyone who is faithful to Catholic teaching as being Christian, and previously claimed our core doctrines to be "heretical". So basically to Gus I am not a Christian according to his standard.
I personally think that it is a VERY dangerous thing to do, to judge whether someone is a Christian based on any kind of individual belief. As we judge others, so we ourselves will be judged. I try not to be the judge if someone is Christian or not. They are all people to me, human beings whose souls long for God, whether they realize it or not.
|
| |
Davidwayne Lackey
|
11/23/2013 21:58 |
Thanks Andre for the clarification on Catholic doctrine on this issue. I was very disturbed by it at the time. I did later on learn that not all Catholics believed the same thing. I have several Catholic friends who accept me as is and never question the fact that I am their Brother in Christ. Several from the DAB also and some of those I have met in my travels. Some of whom I commune with on a regular basis. So I know without doubt they are Christian too.
There may be certain points of doctrine we may not agree with but we all have one thing in common. We love The Lord with all our heart, with all our mind and with all our strength. We endeavor to live out the Gospel of Jesus running the race to the end. We believe the principals written in the Gospels are spelled out in the Apostles Creed. These are the things that make us Christian.
|
(page
1
2
3)
|
