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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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TRWord
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01/19/2013 13:55 |
Catholica
I would hope that you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ and non-other.
Now Jesus said:
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him (must) worship him in spirit and in truth.
The word (must) here tells us that there are no other options. Knowing the truth is absolutely necessary for us to know God.
You say that the creed is true, but that is an assumption, you have placed your faith in the creed rather than the word of the Lord.
How do we know the truth?
Jesus said:
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
There is only one way for us to know the truth and that’s through His word.
Do you really believe that “these 21 lines” you have presented here represent His word.
The word of the Lord is instructive, the creed is deceptive.
The creed is a belief statement that stands between you and the word of the Lord.
As long as you accept the creed, you will never seek the truth the way He said you should, and that is only the first stage of your deception.
Again it’s like using cliffs notes instead of actually going to classes. Cliffs notes that you have to hope are an accurate account of what the professor taught.
Why would anyone do this?
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Ted C
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01/20/2013 00:25 |
TRWord, if you are really interested in truth, wouldn't it be more appropriate for you to label your own beliefs as New Age or Pantheism instead of Christianity? The beliefs expressed in the Nicene Creed /are/ Christianity. The beliefs you are espousing /are/ New Age-Pantheism.
Why not just speak the Truth instead of trying to redefine the terminology?
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TRWord
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01/20/2013 04:08 |
Honesty Ted
You have to know by now that I believe solely in discipleship to the teaching of Jesus Christ.
And you cannot escape the fact that I support everything I believe with His words.
The problem is, that Christians today believe every blogger or any link or creed that comes along instead of His word.
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
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Ray
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01/20/2013 08:24 |
Matthew 13:24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
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Ted C
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01/20/2013 18:12 |
Jesus' words clearly mention the devil. If all that exists is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, then the devil, which Jesus mentions, would of necessity have to be a part of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The only way you could deny this and continue holding to your teachings is for you to deny completely all of the following Scriptures from the King James Version.
If you deny all of these Scriptures, or seek to nullify them through some non-intuitive assertion that they are allegorical and don't actually mean what they say, then you are demonstrating that you don't really accept the Scripture as received. It would then be disingenuous for you continue to citing Scripture as an argument on behalf of your positions.
Either you accept that Jesus said these things or you do not:
Matthew 4:8-10 KJV "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
Matthew 13:36-39 KJV "Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."
Matthew 24:4,5; 25:41,46 KJV (Verse 4 begins a monologue by Jesus which continues through the end of Chapter 25) "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many....Then shall [the King] say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels....And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Mark 4:13-15 KJV "And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts."
Luke 4:1-4 KJV "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread. And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."
Luke 8:10-12 KJV "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved."
Luke 10:18 KJV "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."
Luke 13:15,16 KJV "The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?"
Luke 22:31 KVJ "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat."
John 8:42-44 KJV "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Revelation 1:1; 2:13; 12:9 KJV "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John....I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth....And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
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TRWord
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01/20/2013 21:00 |
Ted the only way you can continue to hold to your belief of the devil or satan as an evil entity is to continue to ignore the words of your Father.
Is. 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Is. 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Your Father is setting the record straight here:
God through Isaiah is speaking to us; we “who now believe in good and evil” and He's trying to communicate that He is all that exist. As He said: “there is none beside me.”
Is. 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
When you are ready to believe the word, then you’ll know your Father and you’ll also know what the devil or satan mean.
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Ted C
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01/20/2013 22:32 |
OK, I just wanted to clarify that you reject the words of Jesus as printed in the King James Version:
Matthew 24:4,5; 25:41,46 KJV (Verse 4 begins a monologue by Jesus which continues through the end of Chapter 25) "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many....Then shall [the King] say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels....And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
John 8:42-44 KJV "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Revelation 1:1; 2:13; 12:9; 20:10 KJV "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John....I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth....And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him....And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
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TRWord
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01/21/2013 05:40 |
Ted
Jesus did say: Take heed that no man deceive you.
But have you obeyed? Jesus told you that if you continue in His word that you’ll know the truth but you instead have accepted “a belief statement,” a creed written by men as the truth, and you interpret the scripture through these beliefs.
Here you have concluded that I have rejected the words of Jesus Christ because I do not interpret that “the devil” or “satan” as a personage.
Jesus called Peter satan.
Matt. 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Matt. 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
So then do you believe that Peter is satan. Peter who said;
Matt. 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt. 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt. 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Obviously Jesus isn’t saying that Peter was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him, nor is He saying that Peter speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Ted you deceive yourself when you seek verses of scripture that seem to conform to your beliefs instead of conforming your beliefs to what is written.
As Isaiah said we have to interpret the scriptures as a whole not bases on one verse.
Is. 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
We know that “the devil” or “satan” is not a personage because our Father said so:
Is. 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
How do you interpret : "there is none beside me."
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Ted C
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01/21/2013 13:12 |
You'll notice Matthew 16:23 wasn't among the verses I used in Jesus referencing the devil. However, it is still apparent that Peter was being influenced by the devil at that point and indeed when Jesus spoke He was probably speaking to the devil, not to Peter.
Matthew 16:23 aside, I still have to assume you reject the other Scriptures I listed where Jesus - very clearly - talks about the devil, Satan.
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TRWord
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01/21/2013 13:35 |
Ted before we go any further tell me what you believe God is saying here?
Is. 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Is. 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
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